Recruiting Forum: Football Talk VII

[vol2013]

I don't argue that. But I don't think the issue is totally black/white. Something has to change.

You have a governing body willing to regulate bagel spreads for players...while they rake in billions off those same players.

I don't know what the answer is. But I don't think the NCAA's method of applying a 1960s rulebook to a 2010s world is the way to go. The game hasn't changed...but the problem is the NCAA acts like the money hasn't either.




My comment about hating their own wasn't necessarily attached to the NCAA stuff...more the hate some Vol fans want to spew any chance they get.

Oh I agree completely things need to change, and think some of the insults thrown his way in the football forum are completely out of line. Am just personally not a big fan of the pity party angle about not being able to afford rent and food to change things. I mean there are plenty of things that I would like to purchase and do, but don't because things like putting food on the table come first. Admittedly maybe making people think that the ncaa is starving athletes is the only way for things to change, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[babyavi]

Correct. Foster was fudging the truth a little. His point is still valid, but scholarship athletes have unlimited access to food. Gibbs is closed some days, but they can still eat at other dining places with the laypeople.

So how does one athlete get a job?

"Except I can go make money off of my name," Foster said. "I can go get a side job if I really wanted to. The NCAA takes away your constitutional rights as an American of not being able to go get a job."

 

[SpringBokVol]

23-17 vols.

Lane goes off.

Peterman takes the reigns.

 

[VolFromNashville]

23-17 vols.

Lane goes off.

Peterman takes the reigns.

Love the optimism

 

[babyavi]

No way Peterman plays, and Lane won't get the opportunity. He has clearly been outperforming Neal and still isn't rewarded.

 

[buffaloblue]

Good on Arian Foster. Never a guy to hod any punches.

He is simply validating a stipend and using stories to back it up and giving an honest answer about college athletics.

Again, sure it sucks its our school, but the world could use more Arian Fosters.

 

[BruinVol]

Just going off what he said. Made that point several times. Had numbers for scholly checks too.

I'd suggest pulling up the podcast (today's 2nd hour I believe). He had an interesting take on it (and wasn't defending Foster either or suggesting paying athletes). Also shared interesting stuff about how you are handled if you come from money or come from the projects (and his personal story).

I am sure some players choose not to get the bigger meal plans. If so I think they can get a stipend for food. If not I know they can get the value of a full meal plan for campus money spend at any of the dining places on campus.

 

[WallyBalls]

Oh I agree completely things need to change, and think some of the insults thrown his way in the football forum are completely out of line. Am just personally not a big fan of the pity party angle about not being able to afford rent and food to change things. I mean there are plenty of things that I would like to purchase and do, but don't because things like putting food on the table come first. Admittedly maybe making people think that the ncaa is starving athletes is the only way for things to change, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Fair enough. I don't like the pity angle either.

I worked all through my time at UT (01-05) and saw what those guys get, so they won't get much pity from me.

Its one of the reasons a lot of what J. Swain said resonated with me. He kept saying "There's value in the struggle,"

But my growing disdain for the NCAA muddies the waters for me.

 

[WallyBalls]

I am sure some players choose not to get the bigger meal plans. If so I think they can get a stipend for food. If not I know they can get the value of a full meal plan for campus money spend at any of the dining places on campus.

I used to pillage the Presidential Court grocery with meal equivalency. I'd have my, my roommates, any sympathetic female's ID I could find. Good times.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

A lot of teams would cut football and many other sports entirely. Maybe half of the 125 teams could afford to pay players what people are suggesting. Obviously you'd have to have equal pay regardless of where you went to school, so the smaller schools that don't have huge money couldn't foot the bill. The BCS conferences would probably be the only teams left in FBS, and not even all those teams could afford it.

Basically what you said, the big conferences split away. No decent player would go to a non paying school, so those wouldn't have a chance at being competitive. I'm not saying that's necessarily a horrible thing, just something to consider. Some people wouldn't have the stomach to effectively ax dozens of programs.

I think the BCS conferences would move to 16 teams and there is plenty of money. I think Slive's proposal is to give the players something like $2,500 a year or something. That's $212,500/year total for 85 scholarships. If that's going to break a bank then the bank needs to be broke. We paid AP twice that just to come to our stadium. If AP or whoever chooses to use the money to increase the pay it gives to staff that's their call. Again there is plenty of money at EVERY program in football. It's just going to everyone else but the players and as the money continues to increase in obscene amounts there is incredible personal interest by the current beneficiaries and their lackeys in keeping the status quo. As you can see even the SEC's proposal is chicken feed. My position is work it out. I know there are a lot of variables and football has to support a number of other sports. I don't really care. Work it out.

 

[005]

No way Peterman plays, and Lane won't get the opportunity. He has clearly been outperforming Neal and still isn't rewarded.

I think it has been directly stated that Lane will get the opportunity.

And it would not be surprising at all to see Nate Dogg get some run.

But besides that, you're right.

Two Florida kids need to show out in the swamp.

 

[Brillovol]

Title VI will keep NCAA players from getting paid more than just a couple thou a year, if at all. A better (and more reasonable) bet is to see them loosen the restrictions of only making $2k a year and all the red tape associated with it.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

Title VI will keep NCAA players from getting paid more than just a couple thou a year, if at all. A better (and more reasonable) bet is to see them loosen the restrictions of only making $2k a year and all the red tape associated with it.

I listen to all the debate and I got to thinking about what it was like when I was in college in the mid-70's. I played basketball so between classes and the gym I didn't really have time for part time work. My parents sent me a monthly allowance but most everyone else I knew didn't have such a luxury. I left college early and went into the Navy. In the Navy I spend all my money on fast cars, hot women, booze, and card games. If anyone thinks the US Military pays enlisted personnel enough to cover all of those priorities they are sadly mistaken. The Navy isn't really conducive to part time work either so we had this system. If you ran out of money before payday there was always someone willing to lend you 20 for 25 on payday. Sometimes I was the lender. The point is when you're young and getting started you need some money. Whatever you get is never going to be enough. Typically most young people don't figure out how to manage money until much later, after a little experience. No wonder 70% of NFL players retire broke. They never got any experience managing money at any previous stop in their lives.

 

[volstopfan14]

No way Peterman plays, and Lane won't get the opportunity. He has clearly been outperforming Neal and still isn't rewarded.

This is my fear.

 

[SaguaroVols]

I think it has been directly stated that Lane will get the opportunity.

And it would not be surprising at all to see Nate Dogg get some run.

But besides that, you're right.

Two Florida kids need to show out in the swamp.

Make that three.

And Palardy kicks the game winning 50 yarder as time runs out!

Vols upset the Gators! (In your best John Ward impersonation)

 

[jave36]

I think the BCS conferences would move to 16 teams and there is plenty of money. I think Slive's proposal is to give the players something like $2,500 a year or something. That's $212,500/year total for 85 scholarships. If that's going to break a bank then the bank needs to be broke. We paid AP twice that just to come to our stadium. If AP or whoever chooses to use the money to increase the pay it gives to staff that's their call. Again there is plenty of money at EVERY program in football. It's just going to everyone else but the players and as the money continues to increase in obscene amounts there is incredible personal interest by the current beneficiaries and their lackeys in keeping the status quo. As you can see even the SEC's proposal is chicken feed. My position is work it out. I know there are a lot of variables and football has to support a number of other sports. I don't really care. Work it out.

Agreed. Don't they already get a small stipend though? And I think title IX would come into play. That would kill any chance of it happening, regardless of if the ncaa exists or not.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

Agreed. Don't they already get a small stipend though? And I think title IX would come into play. That would kill any chance of it happening, regardless of if the ncaa exists or not.

I don't know all the ins and outs of title IX but I don't think any situation is beyond solution. It's like Wall Street. Congress passes some laws to regulate certain entities; the entities morph into some new entity no longer under the jurisdiction of said laws or regulation and wah-lah, problem solved, all legal like.

I think this will get solved and until it does the pressure for positive change will continue to increase. This change will happen. I have no doubt about that and I also don't doubt that there will be a lot of kicking and screaming before and after by the resistance.

 

[jave36]

I don't know all the ins and outs of title IX but I don't think any situation is beyond solution. It's like Wall Street. Congress passes some laws to regulate certain entities; the entities morph into some new entity no longer under the jurisdiction of said laws or regulation and wah-lah, problem solved, all legal like.

I think this will get solved and until it does the pressure for positive change will continue to increase. This change will happen. I have no doubt about that and I also don't doubt that there will be a lot of kicking and screaming before and after by the resistance.

The feminists killed many college sports with title IX. They could easily do it again if male players are paid to play and female players aren't. Colleges would literally have to forfeit all government money to get around it I think. That may be one of the main hold ups now that I think about it.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

The feminists killed many college sports with title IX. They could easily do it again if male players are paid to play and female players aren't. Colleges would literally have to forfeit all government money to get around it I think. That may be one of the main hold ups now that I think about it.

Again, I think this is all in the details and the powers that be have to work these things out. In a quick Google I found that Ohio State had 1123 athletes in 2011, 622 men and 501 women. All total 658 of those athletes split 400 scholarships worth approximately $12 million. Using the SEC proposal even if all "400" scholarship athletes were paid we're still talking about only $1 million per year for all sports both sexes. For Ohio State that's an 8.3% increase on their scholarship grants. I don't see it as a big deal. The new TV deals are going to swamp that but then again there are already vested parties of adults lining up with outstretched palms to claim that money. Right?

 

[jave36]

Again, I think this is all in the details and the powers that be have to work these things out. In a quick Google I found that Ohio State had 1123 athletes in 2011, 622 men and 501 women. All total 658 of those athletes split 400 scholarships worth approximately $12 million. Using the SEC proposal even if all "400" scholarship athletes were paid we're still talking about only $1 million per year for all sports both sexes. For Ohio State that's an 8.3% increase on their scholarship grants. I don't see it as a big deal. The new TV deals are going to swamp that but then again there are already vested parties of adults lining up with outstretched palms to claim that money. Right?

2500/year would not stop anyone from taking money from boosters and agents. That's 200/month. Foster said he was getting 87/week, and that's more than 200/month.

And while that's 8% for the giant schools, it's more like 30% for a lot of schools.

Some athletic departments don't have a $5mil budget.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

2500/year would not stop anyone from taking money from boosters and agents. That's 200/month. Foster said he was getting 87/week, and that's more than 200/month.

And while that's 8% for the giant schools, it's more like 30% for a lot of schools.

Some athletic departments don't have a $5mil budget.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think this is going to change? I mean do you think in the near future (<5 years) we will be paying athletes in college, particularly big money sport athletes?

I hate to pass up a good argument and you're a worthy devil's advocate (though I normally try to avoid the devil and his advocates ) my motivation is simply because I see the money in collegiate athletics going to the pimps while the athletes are treated mostly like whores. I just think it's fundamentally unfair so I'll never be open minded enough to side with the pimps.

 

[fearsvols]

Paying players would cut the number of competitive teams in half. You can debate whether that's an acceptable consequence, but that's what would happen.

Because of title 9 it would destroy every Athletic Department not in a major conference. If they force schools yo pay players more than half the AD will shut down football programs which reduces total number of kids on scholarship.

 

[fearsvols]

Again, I think this is all in the details and the powers that be have to work these things out. In a quick Google I found that Ohio State had 1123 athletes in 2011, 622 men and 501 women. All total 658 of those athletes split 400 scholarships worth approximately $12 million. Using the SEC proposal even if all "400" scholarship athletes were paid we're still talking about only $1 million per year for all sports both sexes. For Ohio State that's an 8.3% increase on their scholarship grants. I don't see it as a big deal. The new TV deals are going to swamp that but then again there are already vested parties of adults lining up with outstretched palms to claim that money. Right?

To be accurate in these details its more than scholarships, you have to look at revenues and expenses of the whole athletic department. For example in 2009/2010 FSU had a revenue of 74 million and expenses were 75 million. Do you then force the kids to pay back the loss?

 

[csprig9]

Whats the weather gonna b like for the game, is this front gonna stay tigether, is it gonna rain tomorrow in jort country

 

[74volz]

Good morning Vols! Good day for an upset. Let's kill em' in the swamp! Go vols! Enjoy the game and drink many many beers...