Cruitin' Forum Football Talk V

[govols09]

If UT can get a fast start on them, like in Knoxville 2 years ago, they may be able to keep it rolling this time. If that game had not been delayed, the outcome may have been way different.

No chance in hades that game would have turned out differently. If anything it harped us. Our D was obviously gassed early. Anytime you see LBs with their hands at their sides in the 1st qtr it's a bad sign

 

[I4Jay]

Both Lane and Neal have the talent to be better than Foster was in college.

Crazy talk is crazy

Neither one of those guys have Arian's Feet, vision or instincts

 

[jave36]

If the defense can prevent the big play, I don't think they can drive the ball on 10-15 play drives and beat us. All the hitting the team has done this spring is going to pay off IMO.

Ya that sounds nice, but what in our defense/their offense makes you think we can stop big or small plays? Oregon is not a big play team, they run a million little plays and score on just about everyone.

 

[sjt18]

Well I hope you are right, and I think if you are setting the expectation that winning 7 games would be a very successful season then you are probably at the right level. Great coaching should be able to get us there and we should all be very excited if that were to happen.

7-7-9+would be a AMAZING 3 year win trend IMO.

IMO, only 7 (counting a bowl) this year mitigates strongly against him being a good enough coach to win 7 next year with what he will have to work with. He won't be back to the dependence on Fr of Dooley's first two years... but unless I miss my guess Freshmen will play big roles in '14.

If AJ and Tiny leave early then 8 of the 12 4* players from the '11 class will be gone. There should be a lot of contributing 3* left (some of them like Randolph very good players) but the guys considered elite talent will mostly be gone. The two classes after that were not great plus 4 of the 11 4* in '12 are gone already.

Jones will depend on young players in years 2 and probably 3... IF he can continue to attract great talent without great results on the field. When Vol fans turn on him like they did Dooley... he probably won't be able to.


I think "success" for him... survival... looks more like 8-6 (or 5)-9+. Next year just looks difficult roster wise... roster gaps get bigger rather than smaller.

 

[CobbVol]

Two of the top 4 teams in the SEC last year had new QB's. Either 6 or 7 of the bottom 8 teams had returning QB's.

Then call it a reason. How long do you accept it as a reason? It won't be better next fall in terms of experience or seasoned talent. If you are giving Jones a pass because you think LB is thin this year... looking at the big picture... when does he no longer get a pass?

Both Lane and Neal have the talent to be better than Foster was in college.

Your Ainge point brings something to mind about how much difference a coach can make. Ainge's confidence was shattered after his Soph year. Cut came in with a different philosophy if you don't care to call it "system". He coached Ainge for a year. In one year he went from a 45% passer to a 67% passer... 737 yds to 2989 yds.

Coaching if the talent is there to start with can turn a player around completely. The question then becomes "Is Jones a great coach or not?"


Not sure I would go that far but if they get the ppg back to the range Wilcox had them (low 20's) then this team should win 7 regular season games. One reason to believe they might is UT's OL + Jones' game philosophy should lead to sustained drives. Even with a hurry up tempo, a run game plus "dink and dunk" passing game will eat some clock.

We definitely have some disagreement. 6 or 7 wins by this new staff, with a new QB, with a new defensive system, with a new offensive system, against our schedule would be a fantastic accomplishment. Not ho-hum as you imply.

 

[sjt18]

Excluding bowl games, Muschamp was 6-6 his first year at Florida. Same for Saban at Alabama. Same for Pete Carroll at USC. I'm sure I could go on if I had the time...

I'm not sure why we hold CBJ to a different standard.

Personally, I think CBJ is the right guy.

Because it is a different situation. All those you mentioned followed that up with good seasons in part because they returned a lot of veterans... guys who played through that rough season.

Jones will not have that luxury and you and I may think he's a great coach... but results alone will save his job.

 

[vol2002]

Two of the top 4 teams in the SEC last year had new QB's. Either 6 or 7 of the bottom 8 teams had returning QB's.

Then call it a reason. How long do you accept it as a reason? It won't be better next fall in terms of experience or seasoned talent. If you are giving Jones a pass because you think LB is thin this year... looking at the big picture... when does he no longer get a pass?

Both Lane and Neal have the talent to be better than Foster was in college.

Your Ainge point brings something to mind about how much difference a coach can make. Ainge's confidence was shattered after his Soph year. Cut came in with a different philosophy if you don't care to call it "system". He coached Ainge for a year. In one year he went from a 45% passer to a 67% passer... 737 yds to 2989 yds.

Coaching if the talent is there to start with can turn a player around completely. The question then becomes "Is Jones a great coach or not?"


Not sure I would go that far but if they get the ppg back to the range Wilcox had them (low 20's) then this team should win 7 regular season games. One reason to believe they might is UT's OL + Jones' game philosophy should lead to sustained drives. Even with a hurry up tempo, a run game plus "dink and dunk" passing game will eat some clock.

I think your arguments would be particularly convincing if you could post in here quotes from a few reputable followers of college football in the media who have analyzed our team and schedule and concluded Butch Jones should be expected to win 8 games next year.

My guess is that you can't.

 

[sjt18]

If we didn't play 5 top 10 teams you might have a point. This team is capable of 7-8 against a normal SEC schedule, but not ours. 7 would be incredible.

Not all of those teams will finish in the top 10. I don't think USCe will for instance.

 

[sjt18]

I think it will be hard to beat them without getting/making a few breaks on defense, jmo

If UT's DT's are as good as I think they can be... and the coaches are as smart as I hope they are... they will split the field on every play with pressure up the middle. That allows the LB's and DB's to play a smaller area and stop even faster players.

 

[sjt18]

Would think mid pack recruiting but winning the Conference 2 of 3 times qualifies him as a good coach?

I think it might. If so then he beats the 3 OOC lightweights, Vandy, UK, Mizzou, and one more with the most probable two victims being Auburn and USCe.

If not, he won't be the first mid-major coach to step up and not be able to cut it. Dan Hawkins built Boise but flopped at Colorado for instance. Kragthorpe was great at Tulsa but could not cut it at L'ville.

 

[vol2002]

Honestly, UT d-line has the size and potential to give their Offense problems. They struggle against teams with big athletic d-lineman(Auburn, USC, Stanford). Now Im not saying UT will win, but anything can happen if UT can get a push upfront and stuff the pulling linemen.

I went back and watched that Oregon Stanford game recently on ESPN 3. I was curious how they did it and whether we could do the same. I came away impressed by Stanford's speed on defense. I don't know that we can match them there. I have a sense our D Line will be disruptive, at least early. But I fear they will wear us down again and break out some big plays.

Nonetheless, I think we can at least put a bit of a scare in them that will be some good publicity for us. I'm excited about that game.

 

[vol2002]

I think it might. If so then he beats the 3 OOC lightweights, Vandy, UK, Mizzou, and one more with the most probable two victims being Auburn and USCe.

If not, he won't be the first mid-major coach to step up and not be able to cut it. Dan Hawkins built Boise but flopped at Colorado for instance. Kragthorpe was great at Tulsa but could not cut it at L'ville.

I don't think anyone will be able to judge him after his first year. I would bet Cincy is glad they didn't. Anyone who does is completely unreasonable.

 

[sjt18]

Crazy talk is crazy

Neither one of those guys have Arian's Feet, vision or instincts

LOL... Foster ran into the backs of blockers almost constantly at UT and was not particularly hard to tackle. Both of the current backs are faster than he was... and quicker. He is obviously much better suited for the pro game. Foster WAS a pretty smart RB and had great blocking and receiving skills.

 

[Nashvegas31]

Crazy talk is crazy

Neither one of those guys have Arian's Feet, vision or instincts

Crazy how people forget how good Arian was in college . Shoukd be the all time rushing king if not for the clawfence

 

[jave36]

Not all of those teams will finish in the top 10. I don't think USCe will for instance.

They will be much better and have the easiest schedule in the SEC.

 

[sjt18]

I don't think anyone will be able to judge him after his first year. I would bet Cincy is glad they didn't. Anyone who does is completely unreasonable.

And I don't much think many people will after year one. It is what I expect from year two if he doesn't perform above expectations in year one that concerns me for his sake. If he's a 6 win regular season coach in '13 then he won't have the roster to match that total in '14. Then what?

 

[sjt18]

I think your arguments would be particularly convincing if you could post in here quotes from a few reputable followers of college football in the media who have analyzed our team and schedule and concluded Butch Jones should be expected to win 8 games next year.

My guess is that you can't.

I said earlier, if he is a "meets expectations" coach then he will not survive at UT. UT needs an "exceeds expectations" coach to get turned around. I have also said he has to beat those he is supposed to beat plus someone he isn't.

It seems most are count Auburn as a loss... they just changed coaches too. Malzahn has one year of HC experience at Arkansas St... so I don't.

I am not necessarily arguing that the expectation should be 8. I am arguing that A) it is more likely than many of your are pretending if Jones is a great coach and B) that he needs it regardless of whether it is reasonable or not if he's going to be HC in '16.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Heck fire! I step away from the computer for an hour, and suddenly....

We're winning 8-9 games... Or else
We are wearing out Oregon at Oregon
And Arian Foster, who absolutely should be our all time leading rusher, is terrible again.

Seems legit

 

[butchna]

How do you like our defense's chances against the best offense in the country?

Since WE have to wait for a product on the field....maybe let the DUCKS trot on the field under Helferichwaneggar before we give that ranking as gospel.:thumbsup:

 

[flowd82]

Both Lane and Neal have the talent to be better than Foster was in college.

 

[Vol464]

Heck fire! I step away from the computer for an hour, and suddenly....

We're winning 8-9 games... Or else
We are wearing out Oregon at Oregon
And Arian Foster, who absolutely should be our all time leading rusher, is terrible again.

Seems legit

Maybe you shouldn't step away..............

 

[darkgable]

If this happens, Jones is not the right coach to turn UT around. This would be an "average" result. An "average" coach will continue to produce "average" results.

Vandy, Mizzou, UK, and 3 OOC wins give him 6. I personally won't be "very happy" with that result AT ALL. That is a bar set too low. Basically that is saying he only has to beat the teams we KNOW he has a talent advantage over to make us happy.[/QUO. WOW! That's either good sarcasm or Cattlemen thinking.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Off topic... but I saw this and I have to share it. lol:

 

[I4Jay]

LOL... Foster ran into the backs of blockers almost constantly at UT and was not particularly hard to tackle. Both of the current backs are faster than he was... and quicker. He is obviously much better suited for the pro game. Foster WAS a pretty smart RB and had great blocking and receiving skills.

You are either misremembering or just making up stuff to stabilize your point.

Arian Foster was awesome his RS Frosh year and his JR year.

Not particularly hard to tackle? You'd be hard pressed to find a 220 Lb RB who wasnt fast at all who made more people miss in open space with just a quick plant, hesitation or shoulder shake

His Vision and ability to find cutback lanes were always Outstanding.



eace2:

 

[darkgable]

This is an incredibly unreasonable set of expectations. Sure, he inherited some talent. And if we played in any other conference, we'd be good enough to win it. But we play a bunch of stout teams with equal or better talent this year. I think 6 wins is a reasonable expectation, but 8 or 9? That's ridiculous and it ignores plain reality that anyone observing our team would recognize.

I hope there aren't many other fans like you out there, because we'll be in the dumps for longhaul if we keep hiring and firing coaches based on these expectations.

The do not accept mediocrity crowd. They love throwing that word around to justify their unrealistic expectations.