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#476
#476
sjt18 said:
The short answer is that Jones inherits enough talent to win 8 or 9 games including a bowl if he's an above average coach. If he's not above average then he's just warming a chair.
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This is an incredibly unreasonable set of expectations. Sure, he inherited some talent. And if we played in any other conference, we'd be good enough to win it. But we play a bunch of stout teams with equal or better talent this year. I think 6 wins is a reasonable expectation, but 8 or 9? That's ridiculous and it ignores plain reality that anyone observing our team would recognize.

I hope there aren't many other fans like you out there, because we'll be in the dumps for longhaul if we keep hiring and firing coaches based on these expectations.
 
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#477
#477
I think a lot of fans are expecting a quick fix, especially after the last month and a half of recruiting. The problem is that UT is not in a quick fix situation. If the last five years should have taught us anything, it's that. A rebuilding job in the sec takes time.

Yes, I expect to see something to be hopeful about on the field, but I'm not so blind that I cant see what we're up against (at Bama, at Oregon, at Florida, vs UGA and vs USCe if you want tangible evidence). Anything beyond 6 wins next year is gravy.
 
#480
#480
terrypedigo said:
Man you are like me we are going to start kicking some ussy gators and tide azz im tired of getting walked on we are fixing to pull a can of whup azz out and beat the ell of some of these so called elite teams.:banghead2:
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I'm not expecting miracles . But the progress with these recruits is pretty stunning. You get a coach who can really "coach" and put players ahead of others expectations and you pull off the upsets. Then we start seeing these truly impact type players across all fronts at UT.
 
#481
#481
It's about getting more than what you expected from the Carson's and Tino Thomas of your team . Every momentum swing matters and that starts with team chemistry
 
#483
#483
sjt18 said:
Eric, I think I know you better than that from your posts here. Young talent is great... but not without wins. Do you think it is reasonable to expect more wins next year than this year? Remember, the Vols will replace the entire OL and defensive front 7 next fall.

You'd expect it to be. But it won't end any different if he doesn't make good on a team with 4 Sr OL's plus Tiny and 6 Sr DL/LB's plus AJ.

Yes and no.

He is doing very well recruiting helped by the legacy players this year. The finish to the '13 class was not "elite". I'm not saying it means he cannot recruit at a high level only that he didn't this past class. He was not an elite recruiter at Cincy... which should have no more trouble getting players than L'ville.

I like the guy and want him to succeed. But the jury is WAY out on whether he's an elite recruiter or not... winning 8 or 9 games this fall though would make things much easier.

Now on the coaching part, I agree completely. He has a 6 years history of doing more with less. He takes average talent and beats more talented teams. If he does this at UT... then he definitely wins more than 6 games in '13.

UT has better than average talent on the OL. Unless the recruiting services just pulled off an amazing feat by underrating pretty much every UT DB and DL... UT has better than average talent there too. All of those groups return with experience and some "scars".



Probably not but we will have to see. Again, winning cures those ills too.
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Dooley didn't leave him with much to work with this last recruiting cycle. He had to try and rebuild a lot of broken relationships in a short amount of time. He inherited a class that was ranked ~#50 in the country and raised it to ~#20.

Kiffin and Dooley inherited top 15 classes and maintained that when they were new hires.

Also you say he was not an elite recruiter at Cincy but history proves otherwise. His years at Cincy were the best recruiting rankings they have ever had.
 
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#484
#484
I really enjoy your posts sjt18, wish you would spend more time in the recruiting forum. :hi:
 
#485
#485
I'm not going to look at wins as a barometer this year. I just want to see a team that is mentally tough, well conditioned, disciplined, and fights EVERY play. If we see those things, I think we have a good coach.
 
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#491
#491
Just talked to him and he has no offer and hasn't committed. He just likes the Vols right now.
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-Fortenberry

I guess Shaq is just optimistic. I like his attitude.
 
#493
#493
sjt18 said:
UT has the deepest and should be the most talented OL in the SEC coming back. Four Srs and a Jr who likely leaves early will start. All 4 of those Srs stand a great chance of being drafted next year.

I am not hung up on recruit ratings when it comes to particular players. But generally speaking they are accurate enough to say that if you have 8 DB's rated 4* by someone... you are not lacking talent. If you have three of your top 4 DT's who were 4* then you aren't short on talent there either.


The short answer is that Jones inherits enough talent to win 8 or 9 games including a bowl if he's an above average coach. If he's not above average then he's just warming a chair.
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How are we with the most important position on the field at any level of football ... QB? How are our competitors at this position?
 
#494
#494
I'm starting to get the feeling that "5.7 3*" on Rivals are a placeholder rating for good players that they either haven't gotten a good look at their tape or players that haven't camped much.

I'm going to guess the majority if these 5.7's end up 4* or better
 
#495
#495
MockingVol said:
I'm starting to get the feeling that "5.7 3*" on Rivals are a placeholder rating for good players that they either haven't gotten a good look at their tape or players that haven't camped much.

I'm going to guess the majority if these 5.7's end up 4* or better
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I did a study once. Most 5.7's stay 5.7's. Some don't though.
 
#497
#497
chavisut said:
I did a study once. Most 5.7's stay 5.7's. Some don't though.
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And the 5.7's I'm talking about are the great number of them on this board. Many of these players have a multitude of high level/elite offers and The rankings are affected by offers. I figure those guys will increase in ranking easily
 
#498
#498
wU-Tang Vol said:
No experience at qb, no experience at wr, no depth at lb, average rbs, average dbs, and a below average kicking game. No way we are an 9 win team.
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QB- Worley has started SEC games. EVERY team in CFB promotes a new QB at least once every 4 years. An above average coach wins with it.

LB- There is little depth... and will be less next year and possibly the next. How long would you like to accept that excuse?

WR- Do you remember Cut's last season in K'ville? L Taylor, A Rogers, J Briscoe, C Brown.... were the main receivers for the second most productive passing attack in the SEC. Talent wise, there is simply no question that Jones will have a better group than that.

RB- Both of those "average" RB's were highly regarded 4* recruits. Combined they avg'd about 5 ypc last year in spite of playing in a pass first offense. Neal was the only player on last year's team to rival CP's speed. He's also one of the quickest and strongest non-linemen players on the team.

DB- Scheme killed these guys last year. Wilcox produced a mid-SEC D with DB's that were no better than those UT will have this fall. Again... if Jones is the right coach... he'll coach over this potential issue.

Kickers- Palardy avg'd only 2 ypk less than the SEC leader in punting. He was 4th in the SEC in FG % though he didn't have very many opportunities and Dooley did not instill or have confidence in him. He avg'd 3 ypk less than the SEC kickoff leader. I don't know what else they have. Darr has been a tremendous disappointment.


The bottom line in all of this is that every team except Bama has holes to fill, problems to correct, and players to replace. Most have personnel deficiencies in one group or another.

The coach UT needs can take this team and win 7 or 8 regular season games, upset someone, and win a lower tier bowl. A guy who can't do it is probably not the right guy.... and is unlikely to survive long enough to prove it even if he is unless he has a better than expected '13.
 
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#499
#499
SJT, to me you are carrying over the rebuilding process from Fulmer-Kiffin-Dooley into this Jones era.

This is a completely different rebuild and it all starts over. The roster is solid in spots but you can't deny that it is unbalanced heavily in some areas and UNFORTUNATLY for all of us, it will take time to fix those issues.

Remember, new systems, new schemes, new plays, new coaches, new everything this year. That at least balances out, if not eliminates your "experienced team" argument.
 
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#500
#500
Ericvol2096 said:
Dooley didn't leave him with much to work with this last recruiting cycle. He had to try and rebuild a lot of broken relationships in a short amount of time. He inherited a class that was ranked ~#50 in the country and raised it to ~#20.
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As you mentioned, it is not uncommon for UT to finish strong.

Jones needed a better '13 class. A better class makes his team next year better and would have improved his chances significantly. He now needs to really pull off a great coaching effort this fall and win more games than expected. I hate it. It isn't fair. It wasn't fair that Dooley inherited and even worse situation... but unfortunately... it is where we are.

Kiffin and Dooley inherited top 15 classes and maintained that when they were new hires.
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Kiffin dismantled a good portion of the 09 class then added to it... and it was still a major bust. Dooley finished with Rogers, Hunter, and other good players. He closed the deal with them regardless.

I like Jones. I really do. But he wasn't able to close the deal with several players he really needed.

Also you say he was not an elite recruiter at Cincy but history proves otherwise. His years at Cincy were the best recruiting rankings they have ever had.
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And they were still mid-pack in the Big East.

FWIW, I would rather him be a great coach and "good" recruiter than the reverse.
 
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