Sick and tired of our delusional academic administration!

[utvolz98]

Seth Stokes is now railing on Dooley, Hart and Cheek on TSR. Talking about how TN football drives the economy in Knoxville. Pointed out that people within the university were complaining about not getting raises in 5 years and how that was directly related to football revenue being down. Not saying I agree fully with everything he's saying, but we are not Vanderbilt and don't need to try to be Vanderbilt.

 

[1967vol]

You really need to get your facts straight... our admissions people are denying in-state kids with GPAs in the 3.0-3.5 range with ACT scores between 25 - 30. Why, because they want to hand pick those from out of state that are slightly higher to fit their needs.

Part of a student's education is mixing and learning from a diverse group student body. So, I think all Admission Offices take this into account when selecting students. And they have a limited number they can select each year.

 

[whocaresgobobcats]

The day that an educational institution puts athletics ahead of academics is a sad day for academics, athletics, and the university. If I was a graduate or student at UT, I'd be pissed about the idea of lowering academic standards to help the football team.

 

[OrangeByBirth]

The day that an educational institution puts athletics ahead of academics is a sad day for academics, athletics, and the university. If I was a graduate or student at UT, I'd be pissed about the idea of lowering academic standards to help the football team.

I am an alumnus. I was an athlete. I see no reason to lower the standards and believe that lower standards just compound the problems. If you're too limited to meet academic standards you cannot understand things like defensive assignments/recognition.

 

[knoxvol16]

If academics were not a problem in the past, why should they be a problem now? Are other schools lowering their standards? Did Alabama lower their standards when they were going through what we're going through?

Things really suck right now, but I think we need to be careful about how far we're willing to go to 'right the ship.' In other words, I think there are ways out if this without sacrificing our tradition. It's just going to cost a lot of money, and a little more time. The money is the hard part, because we're broke.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Dante Phillips couldn't get into Florida. He easily got into UT. This bizarre idea that we're losing because we've jacked admissions standards up higher than our rivals is just stupid. It sounds like there are some JUCO transfer rules that could be tweaked, and apparently Jimmy Cheek has decided to use admissions to wage a petty political war against the AD, but in general, we're still letting illiterate kids into UT to play football just like we've always done. That is not why we're losing.

 

[zach0105]

Someone must have just been denied admission...

 

[Vercingetorix]

We are a state, land grant university for crying out loud! Our administration act like they are running a private or Ivy League college. Wake up people, we are not that!

This administration is so self-absorbed that that they aren't satisfied unless they can continue to report each year that the ACT score of each freshman class is higher than the previous year.

It's pathetic really, they are turning in-state kids away from admission because they want to hand pick those applicants with the highest ACT scores. Are you kidding me?

Give me a break, the administration has delusions of being something they are not. Go back to first and foremost admitting those in-state kids without the elite ACT scores. Go back to allowing this university to co-exist in a healthy relationship with the athletic department. Let's be real, the university needs the athletic department to be successful.

Quit trying to be some sort of elite academic institution and focus on being a state university that excels equally on and off the field.

The states of Georgia and Florida have top-notch public land grant universities that give their best students an opportunity to stay in-state and get a top-shelf education. The state of Tennessee does not. If you're one of Tennessee's best high school students and you want to go to a great college, your choices are to A) open up your wallet and pay for Vanderbilt, or B) go somewhere out of state. Where you will probably stay and work after you graduate. Having our best and smartest kids leave is terrible for the economy of Tennessee. We need a top-tier public university to keep them home.

The fact that some of you think getting marginal football players into school is more important than that is mind-boggling.

Oh, and Florida and Georgia manage to do pretty well at sports too.

 

[bleedorange0037]

You really need to get your facts straight... our admissions people are denying in-state kids with GPAs in the 3.0-3.5 range with ACT scores between 25 - 30. Why, because they want to hand pick those from out of state that are slightly higher to fit their needs.

Really? Yikes. I graduated with a 3.0 and got a 28 on the ACT and it sounds like I wouldn't be able to get in anymore. In 2002 when I graduated from HS there wasn't even an inkling of a thought that I wouldn't be able to get into UT.

 

[lowcountryVOL]

You really need to get your facts straight... our admissions people are denying in-state kids with GPAs in the 3.0-3.5 range with ACT scores between 25 - 30. Why, because they want to hand pick those from out of state that are slightly higher to fit their needs.

This can't be true. You are telling me that you know a Tennessee resident with a 30 ACT score who was denied admission to UT-K?

Not accusing, but this seems highly unlikely.

 

[Nashvol2]

Depends on what you mean by "academic level". UVA Charlottesville is very selective in admissions. And their history and mission is different than UT. Virginia Tech and UTK more closely align. But, I will tell you, my daughter went to UG school at a private school not too far from Charlottesville, and many of the students at her school would go to UVA to take some of the more difficult courses because they were easier there than at her school.:birgits_giggle:

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm talking more about accessibility, affordability, and mission. UT should strive to be the best institution it can be within certain guidlines that allow for the greatest accessibility, some level of affordablity, with the mission to educate Tennessean's and move the state forward. Not to woo students from other states and countries or waste it's money on research that doesn't make an impact in areas important to the state and it's people. :twocents:

 

[Nashvol2]

Dante Phillips couldn't get into Florida. He easily got into UT. This bizarre idea that we're losing because we've jacked admissions standards up higher than our rivals is just stupid. It sounds like there are some JUCO transfer rules that could be tweaked, and apparently Jimmy Cheek has decided to use admissions to wage a petty political war against the AD, but in general, we're still letting illiterate kids into UT to play football just like we've always done. That is not why we're losing.

Yeah, I don't think there is a legitimate argument there.

 

[CardsNVols]

Oh, give me a break.

I won't lie; I was denied admission to UT as an incoming freshman. I did my undergrad at Murray State, and went to UT for graduate school.

No school should EVER lower its standards for the sake of athletics...or instate residents...or anything. Lowering standards is what has done significant and possibly irreparable harm to the educational system in this country; which used to be the best in the world.

 

[volcrazy333]

does cheek realize that since bama has hired saban that they have passed us in pretty much all academic rankings? good football can create a larger applicant pool, allows you to be more selective, in turn making this a better academic school.. whats better marketing to prospective students than them seeing your school from august to january on national tv?

 

[Vercingetorix]

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm talking more about accessibility, affordability, and mission. UT should strive to be the best institution it can be within certain guidlines that allow for the greatest accessibility, some level of affordablity, with the mission to educate Tennessean's and move the state forward. Not to woo students from other states and countries or waste it's money on research that doesn't make an impact in areas important to the state and it's people. :twocents:

I think this is vastly shortsighted. UTK's proximity to and partnership with the Oak Ridge National Laboratory ought to be an incredible advantage for Tennessee in the modern economy. We ought to be keeping our own best students, attracting top students from other states -- and then keeping them in Tennessee. Ever notice how all the high-tech hotbeds in the US are all located where there are a bunch of science PhDs? Wouldn't it be nice to have a massive influx of those businesses in East Tennessee?

The UTK/ORNL partnership could be an incredible economic opportunity for the state. Unfortunately we Tennesseeans are probably to provincial too take advantage of it.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

What we are seeing here is a fanbase with more anger than sense. They will blame anyone they possibly can. TOS has a thread today that asks why the Governor hasn't done more to right the ship.

It's not the Governor, it's not Cheek, it's not our moderately improving academic standards, it's not Hart, it's not homosexual marriage, or the President, or Hurricane Sandy, or solar flares. Our problems are much closer to the source than that. The blame game has resulted in reaches of astronomical proportions.

Maybe if we'd increased our academic standards earlier, our fanbase would understand the value of education? Maybe we'd just have a smaller fanbase.

 

[dlw4n]

Maybe if we'd increased our academic standards earlier, our fanbase would understand the value of education? Maybe we'd just have a smaller fanbase.

You might be right, but increasing our standards earlier wouldn't have helped those moaning about Cheek and his standards, because most of those people didn't go to Tennessee.

 

[supersmo18]

We are in a completely different situation than any of those schools. Those schools, with the exception of Notre Dame, have high school talent beating their doors down to come there. We don't. We don't have an abundance of in state talent. Even during the last several years of CPF's tenure we weren't considered a sexy school.

I'm sorry, 18 year old boys are shallow. Your average 4 and 5 star player tends to be a pampered prima donna who hasn't had to cut it in the classroom. We can choose to be Vanderbilt or we can choose to be Bama. I don't think it's possible for us to be both.

this is how i feel about it. Pretty sad, really, but true.

 

[Nashvol2]

I think this is vastly shortsighted. UTK's proximity to and partnership with the Oak Ridge National Laboratory ought to be an incredible advantage for Tennessee in the modern economy. We ought to be keeping our own best students, attracting top students from other states -- and then keeping them in Tennessee. Ever notice how all the high-tech hotbeds in the US are all located where there are a bunch of science PhDs? Wouldn't it be nice to have a massive influx of those businesses in East Tennessee?

The UTK/ORNL partnership could be an incredible economic opportunity for the state. Unfortunately we Tennesseeans are probably to provincial too take advantage of it.

Agreed with some of your points up to this one. I see that as a strength and a part of our character. I'm not sure how that hurts us when it comes to the partnership between UT and ORNL.

There are programs at UT that should be top 25 in the country because of certain advantages that the University and the state offer as well as benefits that those programs bring to the table. But IMO, the focus should be on making the biggest difference possible in this state. I believe that is educating as many as possible. Look, I understand that there is a whole network of institution in the Tennessee system and everyone has access to whatever level they can get to or afford, but to me the state school should stay attainable to most in this state.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

We are at an academic and admissions disadvantage compared to the rest of the "powerhouse" SEC teams.

You have to have higher admissions standards to be at a disadvantage. Tennessee is looking up to UF and UGA in that regard.

We're talking about a university that admitted Travis Henry when UF and a handful of other schools wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

 

[Jax_Vol]

You have to have higher admissions standards to be at a disadvantage. Tennessee is looking up to UF and UGA in that regard.

We're talking about a university that admitted Travis Henry when UF and a handful of other schools would touch him with a ten foot pole.

"would touch him with a ten foot pole"

Larry Larry Larry.....I think you got kicked in the helmet one too many times

 

[vols-1]

UT's goal is to become a too 25 public university. Check the list of the current too 25: there are plenty of schools with successful football teams and athletic programs in general.

But what is a Top 25 university? Is it subjective like the AP 25 football poll where people vote on opinion? Unless the degree says 25 on it, how is a UTK degree better than an UTM or UTC degree.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

"would touch him with a ten foot pole"

Larry Larry Larry.....I think you got kicked in the helmet one too many times

Good catch, that's my bad.

Touching Travis Henry with a 10ft pole would only result in that 10ft pole getting knocked up by Travis Henry.

 

[Voldemonium]

No we are not. UF and Georgia both have much higher standards than us. We are academically mediocre compared to the rest of the SEC. Even Alabama is commonly rated better academically than UT. It is killing those guys in recruiting, huh?

Are you simply going by the US News & World Report? Just curious...

 

[volfan2024]

We are a state, land grant university for crying out loud! Our administration act like they are running a private or Ivy League college. Wake up people, we are not that!

This administration is so self-absorbed that that they aren't satisfied unless they can continue to report each year that the ACT score of each freshman class is higher than the previous year.

It's pathetic really, they are turning in-state kids away from admission because they want to hand pick those applicants with the highest ACT scores. Are you kidding me?

Give me a break, the administration has delusions of being something they are not. Go back to first and foremost admitting those in-state kids without the elite ACT scores. Go back to allowing this university to co-exist in a healthy relationship with the athletic department. Let's be real, the university needs the athletic department to be successful.

Quit trying to be some sort of elite academic institution and focus on being a state university that excels equally on and off the field.

Big business wants the best at their jobs to employ UT is just trying to watch out for the future of the kids.