Sunseri vs Wilcox

#176
#176
gunner said:
These are nice numbers, but why don't you compare the talent and depth of the two defenses. Dooley will readily admit that this is the most talented and deepest team he has had at Tennessee, on both sides of the ball.

The Vols are bigger, faster and deeper in the front seven than just two seasons ago. Sunseri has a lot more to work with than Wilcox ever had at UT.
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With your 100th post proclaiming the same, exact thing, you continue to reject the notion that talent is not everything. Having the knowledge to execute said action is vitally important. After parlaying having whetted the appetite of being exposed to knowledge, you must then actually learn the knowledge.

Right now, our defense is in the process of learning it.

Yet here you are continually sidestepping that issue of the new scheme. I mean, it's not like this is a new issue. This (the defensive growing pains) was proclaimed rather vehemently before the season started. To be angry to the point of calling Sunseri a bust of a coach is either A) Ignorance or B) Stupidity.

Pick your poison.
 
#177
#177
JoseDaMofo said:
With your 100th post proclaiming the same, exact thing, you continue to reject the notion that talent is not everything. Having the knowledge to execute said action is vitally important. After parlaying having whetted the appetite of being exposed to knowledge, you must then actually learn the knowledge.

Right now, our defense is in the process of learning it.

Yet here you are continually sidestepping that issue of the new scheme. I mean, it's not like this is a new issue. This (the defensive growing pains) was proclaimed rather vehemently before the season started. To be angry to the point of calling Sunseri a bust of a coach is either A) Ignorance or B) Stupidity.

Pick your poison.
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Bingo!!! Sunseri is a bust!! He is supremely unqualified for the position of Defensive Coordinator at Tennessee. Anyone who watched the Mighty Akron Zips out maneuver him two weeks ago would agree. Terry Bowden is half the coach that his father was, but he managed to take Sunseri to school with inferior talent.

As for your theory of an adjustment period, I simply reject that has a reasonable explanation because our players keep making the same basic mistakes over and over again. UT players not only keep making the same mistakes, but they seem to be getting worse on defense. If mistakes are made then good coaches correct the problem in practice, and they don't wait until game day and act confused as to why this is happening.

The honeymoon is over for Sunseri, now is the time for improvement, and I hope he can do it I just don't have any confidence in him or his abilities.

This isn't ignorance or stupidity, just an opinion from a fan who has been watching the Vols for over 25 seasons. If my opinion hurts your world view of things, then I suggest you stop the personal attacks regarding my post, and move on to another topic.

Gunner
 
#180
#180
gunner said:
Bingo!!! Sunseri is a bust!! He is supremely unqualified for the position of Defensive Coordinator at Tennessee. Anyone who watched the Mighty Akron Zips out maneuver him two weeks ago would agree.
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If you believe this, then see my last paragraph.

gunner said:
Terry Bowden is half the coach that his father was, but he managed to take Sunseri to school with inferior talent.
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Except for the fact he lost. You're all about making sure UT fans don't celebrate a moral victory, yet a moral victory is your sole foundation here? Get out of here.

gunner said:
As for your theory of an adjustment period, I simply reject that has a reasonable explanation because our players keep making the same basic mistakes over and over again.
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This is finally your first legitimate gripe, however, you're being ridiculously naive if you think this is the first time UT's had trouble doing something as fundamental as tackling. That's been an issue since Chavis's days.

gunner said:
UT players not only keep making the same mistakes, but they seem to be getting worse on defense.
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Other than the fact that as the game progresses, the defense usually gets better. But hey, you're right the defense has done nothing but do nothing. Hell, I doubt any of them even want to play for Sunseri, right?

gunner said:
If mistakes are made then good coaches correct the problem in practice, and they don't wait until game day and act confused as to why this is happening.
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Yay for more speculation on things you haven't a clue about. I'm sure Sunseri sits at practice and probably just cuts up with the players, don't you think? I'm sure that's his only prerogative -- to make sure the players are enjoying themselves. Not that pesky little thing called his job.

gunner said:
The honeymoon is over for Sunseri, now is the time for improvement, and I hope he can do it I just don't have any confidence in him or his abilities.
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No, his honeymoon just begun. If Dooley gets canned, which he probably won't, he's still got more time with a new HC. I could almost guarantee you that. The precedence is there for a struggling, transitioning defense. It's been well-document and well-presented, but if you're going to be willfully ignorant and reject that precedent, then you're just hopeless and looking for something whine and moan about.
 
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#181
#181
JoseDaMofo

Obviously we will have to agree to disagree, but the bottom line with all of the bantering is the Vols are in a transition on Defense because of the departure of Wilcox and the hiring of Sunseri.

The question that most have about Sunseri is why such poor preformances five games into the season, and is the defense so bad (maybe the worst ever) because of the transition or is it bad because Sunseri doesn't have the knowledge, skills, or abilities to coordinate a defense in the SEC. I say it is the later, you settle for the excuse of the transition, only time will tell.

Gunner
 
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#182
#182
TheDoolander said:
Wilcox D would have been better this year
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I will say yet again that I am soooo glad Wilcox is not our DC. Wilcox's defense will never be great; they will never dominate; it seems to be based on the notion that if you just hang around enough, every team will eventually shoot themselves in the foot. That style of defense works fine against mediocre teams, but is mediocre against the best teams.
Having said that: I am mostly disappointed that we aren't as aggressive as we said we'd be. The NC State game was very aggressive, but we've attacked less and less as the season wears on. The LBs seem to be in read-and-react mode way too much. The best defenses force the other team to do what they want. We've obviously had total cluelessness at times (but remember that Wilcox's team gave up 50+ yd plays nearly every game as well), but we've also had flashes of putting a scare into the opponent (Murray looked rattled several times, but we didn't keep at it). It's those flashes that tell me Sal's defense has the potential to be be dominant. I'm not saying they will be, just that the potential is there and that it isn't there for Wilcox.
 
#183
#183
papatomany said:
i will say yet again that i am soooo glad wilcox is not our dc. Wilcox's defense will never be great; they will never dominate; it seems to be based on the notion that if you just hang around enough, every team will eventually shoot themselves in the foot. That style of defense works fine against mediocre teams, but is mediocre against the best teams.
Having said that: I am mostly disappointed that we aren't as aggressive as we said we'd be. The nc state game was very aggressive, but we've attacked less and less as the season wears on. The lbs seem to be in read-and-react mode way too much. The best defenses force the other team to do what they want. We've obviously had total cluelessness at times (but remember that wilcox's team gave up 50+ yd plays nearly every game as well), but we've also had flashes of putting a scare into the opponent (murray looked rattled several times, but we didn't keep at it). It's those flashes that tell me sal's defense has the potential to be be dominant. I'm not saying they will be, just that the potential is there and that it isn't there for wilcox.
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lol
 
#184
#184
how bad our defense was under Wilcox?.

IMHO, Wilcox and Kiffin were afraid of the SEC competition.
 
#185
#185
ice said:
how bad our defense was under Wilcox?.

IMHO, Wilcox and Kiffin were afraid of the SEC competition.
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2009 MKiffin Defense
22nd Total D/38th Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 566yds 68pts (297 rushing yds, 2 rushing TD)

2011 Wilcox Defense
28th Total D/36th Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 713yds 53pts (273 rushing yds, 3 rushing TD)

2012 Sunseri D
79th Total D/81st Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 1115yds 88pts (610 rushing yds, 7 rushing TD)

Looks like we need to find another DC who is "afraid of the SEC competition."
 
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#187
#187
spudvol said:
2009 MKiffin Defense
22nd Total D/38th Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 566yds 68pts (297 rushing yds, 2 rushing TD)

2011 Wilcox Defense
28th Total D/36th Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 713yds 53pts (273 rushing yds, 3 rushing TD)

2012 Sunseri D
79th Total D/81st Scoring D
vs UF, UGA 1115yds 88pts (610 rushing yds, 7 rushing TD)

Looks like we need to find another DC who is "afraid of the SEC competition."
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Sal is implementing a new defensive scheme.
Besides those earlier numbers are nothing to write home about.
 
#188
#188
ice said:
Sal is implementing a new defensive scheme.
Besides those earlier numbers are nothing to write home about.
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The "implementing a new scheme excuse" is just that an excuse. So were Monte and Wilcox in their first seasons, and they had much better results.

Can you imagine what Monte would do with the talent that Sunseri is wasting this season?

Let's hope that Sunseri can get it together ASAP, so we can stop this debate, and the Vols can get back to beating people.
 
#189
#189
TuskALoosa said:
Now you know why Nick wasn't too upset when Sunseri left. Or when Steele left. Or Thompson ..........
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Yes, because Senseri is a rah, rah, type of coach whose strength is pumping the players up to make plays. He's not the X and O type of coach that Saban demands.
 
#190
#190
gunner said:
Can you imagine what Monte would do with the talent that Sunseri is wasting this season?
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Monte's defense in his first year was solid with Eric Berry, a defensive line that including Dan Williams (a NFL draft pick) and some veteran leadership (people had been in the program for several years.

But when Nick Reviez tore his ACL and then Savion Frazier tore his ACL a few games later, Monte's D was terrible. Do you remember Ole Miss? Or how helpless we looked against Kentucky? Or how Virginia Tech dominated us?

Let's not wear rose-colored glasses.
We haven't had a great defense since 2008 under Chief.

And do you remember how pathetic we were under Wilcox against Bama (2nd half), LSU (2nd half), and Arkansas (whole game) last year?

Great defense is a combination of great schemes, great technique, and great players.
 
#191
#191
voladdiction said:
Monte's defense in his first year was solid with Eric Berry, a defensive line that including Dan Williams (a NFL draft pick) and some veteran leadership (people had been in the program for several years.

But when Nick Reviez tore his ACL and then Savion Frazier tore his ACL a few games later, Monte's D was terrible. Do you remember Ole Miss? Or how helpless we looked against Kentucky? Or how Virginia Tech dominated us?

Let's not wear rose-colored glasses.
We haven't had a great defense since 2008 under Chief.

And do you remember how pathetic we were under Wilcox against Bama (2nd half), LSU (2nd half), and Arkansas (whole game) last year?

Great defense is a combination of great schemes, great technique, and great players.
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It wasn't even so much a personnel problem. Monte just wasn't able to stop a non-traditional offense very well. Being able to stop Alabama, then getting ripped apart by Ole Miss is testament to that.
 
#192
#192
gunner said:
The "implementing a new scheme excuse" is just that an excuse. So were Monte and Wilcox in their first seasons, and they had much better results.

Can you imagine what Monte would do with the talent that Sunseri is wasting this season?

Let's hope that Sunseri can get it together ASAP, so we can stop this debate, and the Vols can get back to beating people.
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Your whole opinion on this is just an excuse to blame somebody when you overreact. It's not ideal -- as has been stated ad nausem -- but you're a convoluted, overreacting little girl if you think implementing a scheme has nothing to do with the struggles.

Having a great defense, as has all ready been stated, is comprised of great coaching, players and schemes. Likewise, having a crappy defense isn't composed of just one component.
 
#194
#194
voladdiction said:
Monte's defense in his first year was solid with Eric Berry, a defensive line that including Dan Williams (a NFL draft pick) and some veteran leadership (people had been in the program for several years.

But when Nick Reviez tore his ACL and then Savion Frazier tore his ACL a few games later, Monte's D was terrible. Do you remember Ole Miss? Or how helpless we looked against Kentucky? Or how Virginia Tech dominated us?

Let's not wear rose-colored glasses.
We haven't had a great defense since 2008 under Chief.

And do you remember how pathetic we were under Wilcox against Bama (2nd half), LSU (2nd half), and Arkansas (whole game) last year?

Great defense is a combination of great schemes, great technique, and great players.
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You do realize the 2008 defense was greatly helped out by our inept offense that always put the opposing teams in great field position? Example: FL managed 30 points on like 230 yards, thanks in part to fumbles and good returns. The yards allowed stat of that defense is greatly inflated (or deflated).
 
#195
#195
bowlinggreenvol said:
You do realize the 2008 defense was greatly helped out by our inept offense that always put the opposing teams in great field position? Example: FL managed 30 points on like 230 yards, thanks in part to fumbles and good returns. The yards allowed stat of that defense is greatly inflated (or deflated).
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That UF game was over in about 8 minutes, which has to be some kind of record.

Speaking of records the 2007 D was the worst in UT history. We are on a pace to break that record, currently.
 
#196
#196
JoseDaMofo said:
Your whole opinion on this is just an excuse to blame somebody when you overreact. It's not ideal -- as has been stated ad nausem -- but you're a convoluted, overreacting little girl if you think implementing a scheme has nothing to do with the struggles.

Having a great defense, as has all ready been stated, is comprised of great coaching, players and schemes. Likewise, having a crappy defense isn't composed of just one component.
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JoseDaMofo,

Nice. Very classy move by inferring that I am a little girl because you disagree with my opinion that some like to use the transition as an excuse. I have never stated that the transition has nothing to do with their struggles, just that they shouldn't use it as an excuse. I do appreciate and respect your opinion regarding the Vols, and why they are struggling on defense. However, no matter how good the players have proven to be in the past, they can't succeed without a coach to show them the way.

I learned early in life during Basic Training in the U. S. Army, the maximum effective range of a excuse is zero meters. That means an excuse will go nowhere with me. I don't believe in excuses, and I am not making any nor have I overreacted, by stating my opinion that the Vols are bad on defense because Sunseri may lack the knowledge, skills and abilities to get the Vols through this transition on defense.

The Vols have more talent in the front seven since the 2008 season. Sunseri should be able to put together a respectable defense with the players that were afforded to him by Wilcox. Up until this season Dooley had made progress on defense with Wilcox, it is a shame for Dooley and the Vols sake that Wilcox left.

If Sunseri and Dooley are to get the Vols back to their winning ways they shouldn't make or accept excuses from players or coaches, and I bet most successful people will agree with that philosophy.

Go Vols!

Gunner
 
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#197
#197
TuskALoosa said:
Now you know why Nick wasn't too upset when Sunseri left. Or when Steele left. Or Thompson ..........
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Nice insight buddy. It's always good to hear another perspective from an opposing fan. As you know, Nick did hire Thompson back for Sunseri's old position. Maybe, the Vols should have just kept Thompson, and let him coordinate the defense at Tennessee. Who do you think Nick respects more Sunseri or Thompson?
 
#199
#199
Ernest Volmingway said:
That they wanted Wilcox back? His defense is putting on a heck of a show against Oregon right now.
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They keep cutting to him and his confused looks on the sidelines after they get scored on or torched for a long one. I don't miss that look one bit.
 
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