Gerrymandering in Virginia

[NEO]

Too lazy to go back but we're arguing that welfare recipients shouldn't count for representation purposes nor for voting, correct? Because I'm 100% on board.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer:

My kids who live in my house have no say in how I run my house. I pay all the bills. They are living off my hard work while bettering themselves so they can eventually have their own home and say.

Why would I ever want someone who is not paying taxes to ever have any say in how my taxes are spent?

It’s the dumbest model ever.

 

[NEO]

Could mean you are retired

Could mean you have 2-3 kids and have child tax credits and make 50-60K a year.

Yep, no vote.

I’m paying for those child tax credits.

You’re welcome but no say.

 

[hog88]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer:

My kids who live in my house have no say in how I run my house. I pay all the bills. They are living off my hard work while bettering themselves so they can eventually have their own home and say.

Why would I ever want someone who is not paying taxes to ever have any say in how my taxes are spent?

It’s the dumbest model ever.

I gotta disagree with you on this. All citizens should have a vote and be represented. And no I'm not talking about those that have a felony conviction and incarcerated.

 

[NEO]

All CITIZENS should count towards representation.

So you want a 2 year old to have voting rights?

 

[hog88]

So you want a 2 year old to have voting rights?

Reality is a person isn't truly a citizen until they are 21, that's when they can exercise all of their rights.

 

[NEO]

I gotta disagree with you on this. All citizens should have a vote and be represented. And no I'm not talking about those that have a felony conviction and incarcerated.

Why should a convicted felon who pays taxes not get to vote but a non convicted felon who doesn’t can?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Yep, no vote.

I’m paying for those child tax credits.

You’re welcome but no say.

But they pay sales, fuel, social security taxes (for the most part). Not to mention federal taxes for cell phone, tv, etc.

If you can send their kids to war and if you provide the framework for the laws in which they live by, they have a right to vote on war and laws...

If someone has paid into SS for 50 years, they have a right to vote how SS is handled..

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

So you want a 2 year old to have voting rights?

Voting no but in the count for Congressional district sizing, yes...

 

[NEO]

Reality is a person isn't truly a citizen until they are 21, that's when they can exercise all of their rights.

But why??

There is a logic behind that stance and the same logic should be applied to people not paying taxes.

If you are getting a refund from taxes paid by another person are you truly an adult?

 

[NEO]

Voting no but in the count for Congressional district sizing, yes...

But we specifically entered a debate about right to vote.

 

[ButchPlz]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer:

My kids who live in my house have no say in how I run my house. I pay all the bills. They are living off my hard work while bettering themselves so they can eventually have their own home and say.

Why would I ever want someone who is not paying taxes to ever have any say in how my taxes are spent?

It’s the dumbest model ever.

Our original model didn't allow people living like that to vote. Letting renters that can pick up and run away once the consequences of electing a bunch of left wing diversity hires run a government hit is beyond idiotic.

Democracy is a failure. That's not what we want, and not what we should be aiming at. Many people are too lazy, stupid, shortsighted, and/or too much of a drain on society to deserve to tell functioning humans how society should work. Plus, people that live off of tax money will always vote for the candidate that promises them more tax money, whether that's right for the nation or not. I'm right there with you.

 

[ButchPlz]

All CITIZENS should count towards representation.

I don't think so. A baby is a citizen but has no idea what representation is. Same as a child.

I understand why our country is set up the way it is, but simply existing shouldn't guarantee you have a say in much of anything.

 

[LouderVol]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer:

My kids who live in my house have no say in how I run my house. I pay all the bills. They are living off my hard work while bettering themselves so they can eventually have their own home and say.

Why would I ever want someone who is not paying taxes to ever have any say in how my taxes are spent?

It’s the dumbest model ever.

not everything the government does, or that people vote on, involves taxes or tax funded items. those non tax payers are still subject to the same laws as taxpayers, and should have the same voice in representation.

the only qualification that should matter to voting or counting towards districts is if you are a citizen.

 

[NEO]

But they pay sales, fuel, social security taxes (for the most part). Not to mention federal taxes for cell phone, tv, etc.

If you can send their kids to war and if you provide the framework for the laws in which they live by, they have a right to vote on war and laws...

If someone has paid into SS for 50 years, they have a right to vote how SS is handled..

SS taxes are paid by an employer too yet the entity can’t vote.

SS taxes shouldn’t exist.

A 16 year old who buys gas and owns a cell phone pays same taxes but can’t vote so those two points are moot.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

But we specifically entered a debate about right to vote.

No, a 2 year old shouldn't vote. Yes, a 2 year old citizen should count in total for the 800,000 or so needed for a Congressional district...

Our House of Representatives represents all citizens, not just those 18+ that owe money to the IRS..

 

[NEO]

not everything the government does, or that people vote on, involves taxes or tax funded items. those non tax payers are still subject to the same laws as taxpayers, and should have the same voice in representation.

the only qualification that should matter to voting or counting towards districts is if you are a citizen.

We disagree.

But that’s ok.

 

[ButchPlz]

not everything the government does, or that people vote on, involves taxes or tax funded items. those non tax payers are still subject to the same laws as taxpayers, and should have the same voice in representation.

the only qualification that should matter to voting or counting towards districts is if you are a citizen.

Pretty darn close to everything the government does requires payment of some kind.

 

[hog88]

Why should a convicted felon who pays taxes not get to vote but a non convicted felon who doesn’t can?

Only reason a convicted felon shouldn’t be able to vote is if they are incarcerated on Election Day.

Once a person has completed all the terms of their sentence all rights should be restored.

 

[NEO]

No, a 2 year old shouldn't vote. Yes, a 2 year old citizen should count in total for the 800,000 or so needed for a Congressional district...

Our House of Representatives represents all citizens, not just those 18+ that owe money to the IRS..

So a districts if 1000 homes with 3 kids each should have more representation than a district of 1000 homes with 1 kid?

Seems a good way to stack the deck.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I gotta disagree with you on this. All citizens should have a vote and be represented. And no I'm not talking about those that have a felony conviction and incarcerated.

In theory I agree. But in practicality; it just ain’t working.
Just like in business, if you haven’t invested in the stock of a company, you can vote on the shareholder’s meeting.
Or in a more homespun analogy; if you want to partake in the pot luck; it is expected that you bring a dish.

 

[NEO]

Only reason a convicted felon shouldn’t be able to vote is if they are incarcerated on Election Day.

Once a person has completed all the terms of their sentence all rights should be restored.

We agree.

 

[NEO]

In theory I agree. But in practicality; it just ain’t working.
Just like in business, if you haven’t invested in the stock of a company, you can vote on the shareholder’s meeting.
Or in a more homespun analogy; if you want to partake in the pot luck; it is expected that you bring a dish.

We apply this same logic to everything in life except voting. It just makes no logical sense.

 

[BeardedVol]

Yep, no vote.

I’m paying for those child tax credits.

You’re welcome but no say.

So what would be the deciding factor if you guys got your wish and managed to have the federal income tax abolished?

Only people who own land can vote?

 

[hog88]

But why??

There is a logic behind that stance and the same logic should be applied to people not paying taxes.

If you are getting a refund from taxes paid by another person are you truly an adult?

My personal belief is that as soon as a citizen is eligible for the draft they are eligible to vote and exercise every right of adulthood.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I don't think so. A baby is a citizen but has no idea what representation is. Same as a child.

I understand why our country is set up the way it is, but simply existing shouldn't guarantee you have a say in much of anything.

If you wanted to make it 18+ only counted for Congressional representation size requirements, then that is a reasonable argument. I think all is better but respect that.

To say that you arent included in Congressional representation size requirements because you paid 5-6 federal taxes but not income is silly. Or if you fought for the country and paid income taxes for decades but now you dont because you are on social security, etc. Or if you had a major medical expense one year and dont have to pay income taxes that year. Or lost a job that you had for 30 years..