The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

#26,401
#26,401
johnfnkelly said:
The bar for being the best modern freshmen in UTBB history isn’t very high. I was expecting a Jabari smith/ Brandon Ingram level player. I haven’t seen it yet, though it’s early.

Physically I see a taller zaccharie risacher, who isn’t really impressive to me. I would argue ament is already a better prospect.
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I’m just not sure how any declarative statements can be made off a two-game sample size. I haven’t really seen anything from the other freshmen this first week of the season that tells me Ament can’t be one of the best players in the country this year, we simply just don’t know.

Maybe you’re right and Ament turns out to be a disappointment, but for whatever reason it seems like you’re being overly harsh on him already when none of the data says that should be the case. It’s the same thing I’ve seen on social media by non-Tennessee fans, too. People seem to almost be more strict on grading Ament simply because he went to Tennessee. Would we really be acting like this if he put up the exact same stat lines at Duke through 2 games?
 
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#26,402
#26,402
I think you want Ament to be a driver when he’s really a scorer and good shooter. I think the driving may come with time though, he covers a lot of ground with one step. He needs to keep working on his ball control to be a better driver.
 
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#26,404
#26,404
johnfnkelly said:
What is that supposed to prove? Lol they are cupcake games. Basketball isn’t all about numbers.
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I’m confused what point you’re trying to make. You seem to be unmoved by stats or context of any kind and it’s almost like you just want people to tell you that you’re right and say “Ament is overrated.”

By the way, here are the first two opponents for your comparisons:

Jabari Smith Jr. - Morehead State, Louisiana Monroe
Brandon Ingram - Siena, Bryant

….and for fun Brandon Miller’s first two games were Longwood and Liberty. So, you’re correct they all played incredible competition compared to Ament.
 
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#26,406
#26,406
Lankykong said:
I think you want Ament to be a driver when he’s really a scorer and good shooter. I think the driving may come with time though, he covers a lot of ground with one step. He needs to keep working on his ball control to be a better driver.
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He has looked good off the dribble from 8-10’ out, but i wonder if those shots will translate to bigger more athletic teams.
 
#26,407
#26,407
TheMookieMonster said:
I’m confused what point you’re trying to make. You seem to be unmoved by stats or context of any kind and it’s almost like you just want people to tell you that you’re right and say “Ament is overrated.”

By the way, here are the first two opponents for your comparisons:

Jabari Smith Jr. - Morehead State, Louisiana Monroe
Brandon Ingram - Siena, Bryant

….and for fun Brandon Miller’s first two games were Longwood and Liberty. So, you’re correct they all played incredible competition compared to Ament.
Click to expand...

My entire point was that Ament isn’t as fluid of an athlete as i anticipated, which limits how good of a player he’ll inevitably be. I never said he was a bad player or even mediocre - just not as special as I was hoping for.

We’ll revisit this soon enough. I’d love to be proven wrong.
 
#26,408
#26,408
johnfnkelly said:
My entire point was that Ament isn’t as fluid of an athlete as i anticipated, which limits how good of a player he’ll inevitably be. I never said he was a bad player or even mediocre - just not as special as I was hoping for.

We’ll revisit this soon enough. I’d love to be proven wrong.
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You keep flip flopping between fluid, exciting, and other adjectives.

Wanna say he's not a high flyer? Sure ok. Phillips is that but limited in other ways. But literally against Mercer was about as fluid offensively you could ask for snaking through the defense, drawing contact, and making baskets.

You've painted yourself into some weird corner that's already putting down Ament. Maybe wait until he has a crappy game and you can come back and bash him.
 
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#26,409
#26,409
Can we all just agree that Ament is young and developing? The talent is there. Maybe his demeanor puts people off? He’s not a rah rah guy like other players we’ve had.

My favorite player in this team is Phillips. When he’s on the court, good things happen. Sure, he can’t hit a shot past 5 feet but he does so many little things well. Perfect player for Barnes
 
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#26,410
#26,410
johnfnkelly said:
My entire point was that Ament isn’t as fluid of an athlete as i anticipated, which limits how good of a player he’ll inevitably be. I never said he was a bad player or even mediocre - just not as special as I was hoping for.

We’ll revisit this soon enough. I’d love to be proven wrong.
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You are complaining about your own expectations. Did you not watch Ament play prior to stepping on campus? He's been about what I expected based on what he was coming in.

He just won SEC Freshman of the Week and there are folks on here criticizing him! I just want to know exactly what the expectations are. Because I'm certain that is what is wrong and not Nate Ament.
 
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#26,411
#26,411
Chaz-Vol said:
You keep flip flopping between fluid, exciting, and other adjectives.

Wanna say he's not a high flyer? Sure ok. Phillips is that but limited in other ways. But literally against Mercer was about as fluid offensively you could ask for snaking throw the defense, drawing contact, and making baskets.

You've painted yourself into some weird corner that's already putting down Ament. Maybe wait until he has a crappy game and you can come back and bash him.
Click to expand...
He lacks a good first step, isn’t very physical at this point and doesn’t have a huge bag either with his ball handling (crossovers, hesi’s etc).

I wonder how effective he’ll be with getting past his man against better defenses.
 
#26,414
#26,414
johnfnkelly said:
My entire point was that Ament isn’t as fluid of an athlete as i anticipated, which limits how good of a player he’ll inevitably be. I never said he was a bad player or even mediocre - just not as special as I was hoping for.

We’ll revisit this soon enough. I’d love to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...
I think he's extremely fluid and smooth in the he manner he operates.

Not sure you would even know how to define "special"
 
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#26,416
#26,416
johnfnkelly said:
Sometimes I forget how personal yall take this forum.
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I think the vast majority of people on here are not taking this “personally”. Your opinion on Ament doesn’t affect my life in any way. I am just trying to understand your position better, because it seems to be based more on emotion than anything concrete.
 
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#26,417
#26,417
TheMookieMonster said:
I think the vast majority of people on here are not taking this “personally”. Your opinion on Ament doesn’t affect my life in any way. I am just trying to understand your position better, because it seems to be based more on emotion than anything concrete.
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My take on Ament has been purely subjective based off watching him play - I thought this was established.

I have been more impressed with guys like Caleb Wilson and Koa Peat so far.
 
#26,418
#26,418
Kevin Durant's first 3 games at Texas. 31mpg, 20.7ppg, 9rpg, 1.5apg, 44% fg, 31% 3pt, 82% ft, 2.7tos pg.

Nate Ament's first 3 games at Tennessee. 29mpg, 20ppg 8.7rpg, 3.7apg, 46% fg, 27% 3pt, 77% ft, 2.7tos pg.

They aren't quite the same player, but are quite similarly effective through 3 games under Coach Barnes. Ament is 6'11 if not 7'0 tall. He's not going to look fast/explosive or have a super tight looking handle at this point in his basketball life, most people his size will never achieve the handle he has already. But he dunked on the baseline last night, leaving the floor 2 feet outside the paint, and made it look effortless. At any level of play, a team is either going to have to commit a big man to try and guard him away from the basket, or he's going to simply shoot over guys who are 6'6 that can stay with him outside. That's why he's getting fouled so much, defenders are always in a bad position against him because he's a physical mismatch.
 
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#26,422
#26,422
We get team turnover and FT% numbers improved and this offense would be ranked a whole lot higher, the FG% are solid and we’re doing a great job or rim & 3 opportunities, add in being the top ORB team in the country and that’s a familiar for a very good offense…as I said the 2 factors hurting them are turnovers and missed free throws, 2 correctable things.
 
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#26,423
#26,423
bleedingTNorange said:
We get team turnover and FT% numbers improved and this offense would be ranked a whole lot higher, the FG% are solid and we’re doing a great job or rim & 3 opportunities, add in being the top ORB team in the country and that’s a familiar for a very good offense…as I said the 2 factors hurting them are turnovers and missed free throws, 2 correctable things.
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Think turnovers will drop as they play together. FT% Ament has already set a tone the rest of the team will have to follow, he said he's been taking FTs after every practice to work on it.
 
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#26,424
#26,424
bleedingTNorange said:
We get team turnover and FT% numbers improved and this offense would be ranked a whole lot higher, the FG% are solid and we’re doing a great job or rim & 3 opportunities, add in being the top ORB team in the country and that’s a familiar for a very good offense…as I said the 2 factors hurting them are turnovers and missed free throws, 2 correctable things.
Click to expand...

I know there have been some questions/discussion on JG’s struggles at the 1 and him maybe being more of a 2, but I fully expect his competence in running the offense to improve as he gets more comfortable with the rotations and chemistry builds. He may never be ZZ from a facilitation standpoint, but he doesn’t need to be ZZ. I’m fairly confident the turnovers will improve by conference play, and if they do it makes me really excited about the potential for the offense to be one of Barnes’ more complete teams, not just reliant on a superstar.
 
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#26,425
#26,425
I’m a bit more concerned than others on here about turnovers apparently. Some of the turnovers are just sloppy play or not playing with people enough. Some of that can be cleaned up, but it doesn’t feel like we have very strong ball handlers which can’t be fixed at this point.

FT’s I think we’re alright. As long as ament is leading the way in attempts we should shoot a decent percentage.
 
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