Recruiting Forum Football Talk IX

[engineerVOL]

So you think that the Vols should be a middle if the pack SEC team?

In today’s landscape, you should expect a 9-3 or 10-2 season and hopefully strike gold in the portal and other teams don’t…. then boom, magic could happen.

I do not consider Tennessee a top 4 SEC team anymore. There’s going to be so much change over the next decade though.

Friggin Vandy is on the cusp of playoffs.

 

[Go Fight Win]

I think I've decided engaging with the negativity on this board simply exacerbates the problem. It's almost like these folks want to start an argument sometimes.

humiliation kink. many on the board have it

 

[rikberry31]

Bill Lee imploring New Yorkers to move to Tennessee.

I assume he's talking about more Zakai Zeiglers playing basketball in Knoxville.

Yeah Bill, if isn't the like of Bernard King or ZZ, GTFO.

 

[VolNRaleighNC]

Midwest is simply better at drinking at beer

They have to drink to live there.

 

[rikberry31]

Some are saying Georgia fired Richt and got better. Nebraska fired Frank Solich and got much worse.

The attitude that the grass is greener and the homerun hire rarely pans out. My question is who could we get that would be better. A lot of eyes will be opened after they see this round of hires. I really think LSU and FU would have been better to have stuck, but Auburn made the right move. FU and LSU are fixin to FAFO.

 

[Vols4us]

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

I am firmly at #3 with a provision of two years, possibly 3 with good progress.

I am very grateful for his work and return of the program to relevance.

He's had five seasons in the SEC to prove he is a HC at the top 10 level. He has top 10 level support from fans and the university. NIL and the portal immediately changed the recruiting game. UT/donors have provided the financial backing.

I do not see a HC first, OC second. I see the opposite. A HC has to control and hold accountable all aspects of staff and player performance. If he goes CEO style, the DC still has to be held accountable during games and he is not. Banks is still doing what he did years ago. Heup has retained mediocre to awful assistants at this level for years as well. No top coach does that if the goal is to win it all. Once you have success and your coaches get poached, you have to find equal to better. That's just the job.

Watch him on the sidelines during games. He talks to the offensive guys occasionally and studies his play chart. He has no idea what is happening on defense much of the time. Add in these late in the half and game poor decisions and use of the clock.

All of it is fixable and I want him to be successful. We need a good long run with a successful HC. But 8-9 wins a season is not it.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

I don't blame Nebraska for firing Solich. He was given the keys to a Ferrari and started running it into the ditch. Georgia took a risk on firing Richt, but Richt elevated the program and set Kirby Smart up for success. Richt was also at UGA for 15 years.

I can't think of too many comparable situations for Heupel, he took over a dead program and put us back on the national stage in year 2. Pretty remarkable when you put it in perspective.

I don’t blame Nebraska either, nor do I blame Tennessee for firing Fulmer. It’s less that the firing decision was WRONG in and of itself and more that it’s literally always a roll of the dice when you’re trying to go from good to great. My general sense is that it works less often than it doesn’t.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don't blame Nebraska for firing Solich. He was given the keys to a Ferrari and started running it into the ditch. Georgia took a risk on firing Richt, but Richt elevated the program and set Kirby Smart up for success. Richt was also at UGA for 15 years.

I can't think of too many comparable situations for Heupel, he took over a dead program and put us back on the national stage in year 2. Pretty remarkable when you put it in perspective.

Closest comparison is probably Curt Cignetti & Indiana, except they've never been a "tier 1" football program.

Still Allen was their Butch Jones...mild success then a nose dive before getting fired...they had 3 years winning no more than 4 games in a row. Curt takes over goes 11-2 and is currently 9-0 with 2 top 10 wins this season should be a cakewalk to 12-0 and playing Ohio State in the Big 10 championship game.

 

[SKV84]

I don't blame Nebraska for firing Solich. He was given the keys to a Ferrari and started running it into the ditch. Georgia took a risk on firing Richt, but Richt elevated the program and set Kirby Smart up for success. Richt was also at UGA for 15 years.

I can't think of too many comparable situations for Heupel, he took over a dead program and put us back on the national stage in year 2. Pretty remarkable when you put it in perspective.

Lmao...Solich didnt run that program in the ground. He was 58-19 as the head coach of Nebraska, after Obsbourne that's pretty damn good. He only had 1 season where he won less than 9 games, had 3 seasons with 10+ wins in only 6 years there. Nebraska is getting the karma it deserves for running him off.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don’t blame Nebraska either, nor do I blame Tennessee for firing Fulmer. It’s less that the firing decision was WRONG in and of itself and more that it’s literally always a roll of the dice when you’re trying to go from good to great. My general sense is that it works less often than it doesn’t.

Yep, and what really sucks...the AD that fired Fulmer and hired Kiffin (can't remember who was there at that time) actually got the hire right.

Now Kiffin might have gotten us on probation with more baggage than Pruitt left us with...who knows. But Lane is capable of winning at a high level. Sucks he didn't appreciate the brand as much as he should have and bailed for USC at the worst possible time both for TN and for himself. Really surprised he didn't see the writing on the wall in that situation, they just wanted a scapegoat HC until things blew over and fired him as soon as they could.

 

[Aesius]

They have to drink to live there.

Met some people from Wisconsin when my wife and I lived in Charlotte. Their winters last half the year and they spend them getting drunk in their garages and basements.

 

[InVOLuntary]

All valid points. I don't mind the occasional question but you're fooling yourself if you don't realize you are feeding into the negative sentiment on this board. Frankly, I expected a little better from you. Your message is extremely clear even though you won't just come out and say it. Making a statement that a coach won't win a championship and proclaiming that as some sort of genius is a bit of a stretch. We literally have 3 active coaches with a National Championship and the most recent one was almost fired by his idiot fans before last season ended. Heupel is also not average as he was in the playoffs last year. Anyway, I took your bait so you can be satisfied that you got me.

That's the whole problem. Any discussion other than unicorn rainbows is considered feeding the negative sentiment. I appreciate your propping me up as having any influence whatsoever. And , I never said he had to win a national championship. That's hogwash. What I would like is for him to beat a ranked team. He hasn't in his last 5 attempts. I'm sorry I've disappointed you but don't serve me chicken shat and tell me it's chicken soup.

 

[peaygolf]

Does MVSU win??

 

[Aesius]

Yep, and what really sucks...the AD that fired Fulmer and hired Kiffin (can't remember who was there at that time) actually got the hire right.

Now Kiffin might have gotten us on probation with more baggage than Pruitt left us with...who knows. But Lane is capable of winning at a high level. Sucks he didn't appreciate the brand as much as he should have and bailed for USC at the worst possible time both for TN and for himself. Really surprised he didn't see the writing on the wall in that situation, they just wanted a scapegoat HC until things blew over and fired him as soon as they could.

Ole Miss Lane is not the same coach as 2009 Lane. Had he stayed, Kiffin almost certainly gets fired at Tennessee. He wasn't ready to coach in the SEC back then. We would have seen more moments of brilliance and some very fun games (ala UGA and USCjr), but his teams also no-showed several times that season.

 

[rikberry31]

In today’s landscape, you should expect a 9-3 or 10-2 season and hopefully strike gold in the portal and other teams don’t…. then boom, magic could happen.

I do not consider Tennessee a top 4 SEC team anymore. There’s going to be so much change over the next decade though.

Friggin Vandy is on the cusp of playoffs.

There historically been several times when Tennessee has been middle of the pack and there are stretches when we have been the alpha dog. I remember during the 95-05 stretch talking to a Bammer and he said, "I don't think we will ever beat Tennessee again." It is all cyclicall, like the weather. Some stretches there's lots of rabbits and some stretches there's lots of coyotes, never at the same time.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Well...ask yourself this.

Fulmer & Neyland are probably Tier 1 right?...Heupel is for sure Tier 2

The previous coaches before Heupel were all arguably Tier 4 at best. He has for sure moved us from the Tier we had dropped to, but still can move us back to the highest level. For a coach in year 5 I'm not sure how that's not exactly where ya want to be...

Not just Year 5.

First 2 years under NCAA threats
Next 3 years under NCAA restrictions

This is not like UGA situation

Skirby got to build without NIL and Portal with great talent on bench and no NCAA. Now with Portal and NIL he is a little more earthly kind of dude and not as dominate. He was one missed FG from losing to UT and one official call from a close Florida game.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Reality is some years they will be middle of the pack and others they will be top tier. Name a team that hasn't true of and who won all the time forever.
I want to win more than anyone but I am not a petulant child who throws a hissy at every loss,...anymore.

That's almost impossible these days. Very seldom does one stay the same. They are either ascending or descending.

 

[letsgoUT29]

Lmao...Solich didnt run that program in the ground. He was 58-19 as the head coach of Nebraska, after Obsbourne that's pretty damn good. He only had 1 season where he won less than 9 games, had 3 seasons with 10+ wins in only 6 years there. Nebraska is getting the karma it deserves for running him off.

I disagree man. Nebraska was elite and was coming off a national title. Once Crouch graduated, the program was headed in a downward spiral.

Using his record as justification is like saying Coker shouldn't have been fired at Miami because he was 60-15.

 

[vol9799]

In today’s landscape, you should expect a 9-3 or 10-2 season and hopefully strike gold in the portal and other teams don’t…. then boom, magic could happen.

I do not consider Tennessee a top 4 SEC team anymore. There’s going to be so much change over the next decade though.

Friggin Vandy is on the cusp of playoffs.

Don't consider UT a top 4 SEC program based on what criteria? There's so many different criteria that can be applied and the landscape is so completely changed with the portal and NIL, I would almost argue that apart from present talent on the roster or current coaches, there is no underlying long-term fundamental status for any program.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

In today’s landscape, you should expect a 9-3 or 10-2 season and hopefully strike gold in the portal and other teams don’t…. then boom, magic could happen.

I do not consider Tennessee a top 4 SEC team anymore. There’s going to be so much change over the next decade though.

Friggin Vandy is on the cusp of playoffs.

What’s your prediction for Vandy without their most senior team in league and without Pavia next year looking at their schedule?

Not to Great

 

[GVol1966]

Thought Provoking Question For The Day.

How Many Coaches in D1 Football today are NC coaches?

3

 

[Dadof2Vols]

That's the whole problem. Any discussion other than unicorn rainbows is considered feeding the negative sentiment. I appreciate your propping me up as having any influence whatsoever. And , I never said he had to win a national championship. That's hogwash. What I would like is for him to beat a ranked team. He hasn't in his last 5 attempts. I'm sorry I've disappointed you but don't serve me chicken shat and tell.me it's chicken soup.

And before he came along, how long had it been since UT beat Bama?

He has made progress, you Cherry pick stats to make your point like last 5 attempts…

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I think @Vols4us made a great point. Heupel still seems to be an OC mindset. Could still end up winning it all though without changing that...but I think to do so he really needs a HC/DC type.

Sam Pittman recognized that when he took the Arkansas job...unfortunately for him Odom and Briles both left year 4 and Pittman wasn't able to replace them.

I'm kind of curious what happens with Aranda at Baylor, me personally that's the sort of guy I'd want for Heupel as DC.

 

[SmyrnaATLVolisback]

There is absolutely no comparison between the situation that Smart walked into and the one Heup inherited. Kirby was set up and he knew it. All Kirby did was keep the ball rolling, winning breeds winning. Even with his terrible qb management they still won.

And where did I compare the two?

He stated he would be happy with Richt and winning 8-9 games a year.

I stated that they fired Richt for that because he didn’t win championships. And now they have won two championships under Kirby. Kirby is better than Richt.

Conversation never was about what Heupel inherited or the past here. And Heupel turned it around way quicker than any thought here. But the truth is this is year five and this is his full roster now. He could have taken more in the portal and he and his staff chose not to. Everyone wants him to be successful and become elite. That likely includes some changes on staff. I think everyone wants him to be successful and become elite.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

The attitude that the grass is greener and the homerun hire rarely pans out. My question is who could we get that would be better. A lot of eyes will be opened after they see this round of hires. I really think LSU and FU would have been better to have stuck, but Auburn made the right move. FU and LSU are fixin to FAFO.

NIL has caused the costs associated with running a winning program to skyrocket and you could easily get donor fatigue if you screw up a hire just because of the sheer amount of money you'd have to raise to buyout the last guy, pay for the new guy, and then buyout that guy when he doesn't work out. You're absolutely right that the grass isn't always greener...less so now with NIL. A lot of programs would love to be in our position with Heupel. The commitment from the AD and donors is there and we see the recruiting trending up each year. This program isn't far at all from taking that last step.

I kind of wish they would hire a guy like Cutcliffe to have some oversight and advise Heupel on how to adjust what they do in practice in order to tighten up the on field discipline. Cut was good at that and we desperately need it. I think Jerry Kill has done something similar for Vanderbilt.