Recruiting Forum Football Talk IX

[InVOLuntary]

I understand both sides of the spectrum. One crowd is saying "we've seen the 9 and 10 win seasons for the last 3 or 4 years. What's the next step to achieve more".

The other crowd is saying " we're good with 9 or 10 wins per year, because it's brings stability to the sport that we haven't had in 15 years".

It's whatever you prefer... I'm from the AL Davis era, " just win baby"..

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

 

[InVOLuntary]

Buddy it is what happens. All time Tennessee averages 8 wins a season. Alabama averages 9. To think we are going to win 11-12 games every year is ignorant and a 5 year-old expectation.

So you think that the Vols should be a middle if the pack SEC team?

 

[ndubvols]

My opinion that nobody asked for on expectations is 9-10 wins. That’s good enough for playoffs more often than not. At that point you’re just an elite qb away from a national championship.

Huepel’s also been consistently improving in recruiting. Defense is about jimmys and joes imo, Keep stacking classes and the defense will sort itself out.

 

[kong]

You can tell when you have an offensive minded coach. All the elite athletes end up on offense. This minor tweak will do wonders for CJH. Eric Berry would’ve probably been a WR under Huep.

This is the transfer portal era. You recruit players at a position and leave them there or they transfer. All the elite athletes that end up on offense are there because we recruited them to be on offense and they wanted to play in heupel’s system.

 

[volbeast33]

@knoxvol52 @pismonque @UTSuave’

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

I'm firmly in 2...and one thing I really want to see which I'm not sure we will see it often because of NIL and Portal era.

11-2 in our best season...and it was the only season we've had a 2nd year starter at QB to date under Heupel.

 

[rikberry31]

I understand both sides of the spectrum. One crowd is saying "we've seen the 9 and 10 win seasons for the last 3 or 4 years. What's the next step to achieve more".

The other crowd is saying " we're good with 9 or 10 wins per year, because it's brings stability to the sport that we haven't had in 15 years".

It's whatever you prefer... I'm from the AL Davis era, " just win baby"..

All these people are focusing on the coach and making it a bigger deal that it is. Teams with bad coaches and good players win all the time. Good coaches win because they have good players, good coaches with bad players lose. End of story. Time in and time out the team with the best players wins. No different than the country with the biggest guns wins.

 

[ndubvols]

All these people are focusing on the coach and making it a bigger deal that it is. Teams with bad coaches and good players win all the time. Good coaches win because they have good players, good coaches with bad players lose. End of story. Time in and time out the team with the best players wins. No different than the country with the biggest guns wins.

Definitely agree one defense. You either have guys upfront that can get in the back field or you don’t.

Offense you can scheme up to an extent which we’ve seen huepel do.

If we keep climbing recruiting rankings like we have been the last few years huepel’s going to win big.

 

[letsgoUT29]

Me too. It's BVS. Fear of failure prevents a strive for excellence every time.

I don't think it's BVS. I just believe that many of us have come to realize that the Nick Saban era of college football is over. If we win 9-10 games per season on average, I think most fans feel confident that we have a coach who will eventually lead a team capable of breaking through as a championship contender. The SEC has too much parity to expect a playoff berth every season.

 

[rikberry31]

So you think that the Vols should be a middle if the pack SEC team?

Reality is some years they will be middle of the pack and others they will be top tier. Name a team that hasn't true of and who won all the time forever.
I want to win more than anyone but I am not a petulant child who throws a hissy at every loss,...anymore.

 

[letsgoUT29]

TN has had 21 10 win seasons in the entirety of the program existing.

121 seasons, and only 21 did they finish with 10 wins.

8 by Fulmer & 5 by Neyland

Heupel has done it twice already in 4 complete years here. So I absolutely am fine with leaving him damn well alone and seeing what happens the next 3-5 years.

Not too mention he took over an absolute dumpster fire unlike Fulmer. We finally have a coach that has proven he can win, lets give stability a try.

 

[Aesius]

Everyone focusing exclusively on UT's football history is ignoring the fact that the men's basketball and baseball programs have both moved up tiers in the past decade.

Baseball moved up several tiers under Tony V and basketball has moved up one at least with an argument for two (from tier 4 to high tier 3, low tier 2). Both of those movements occurred during the tenures of the best coaches either program has ever seen.

What we have been historically is not what we are destined to be forever.

Don't twist this into me thinking Heup needs to be fahred, please. Just saying that every program with resources and a huge fan base is one exceptional head coach away from changing its destiny. Heupel can still be that guy--I don't think we've seen his full arc here yet.

 

[SoilVol]

Bill Lee imploring New Yorkers to move to Tennessee.

I assume he's talking about more Zakai Zeiglers playing basketball in Knoxville.

 

[rikberry31]

Definitely agree one defense. You either have guys upfront that can get in the back field or you don’t.

Offense you can scheme up to an extent which we’ve seen huepel do.

If we keep climbing recruiting rankings like we have been the last few years huepel’s going to win big.

Well I believe you are right to a point and I think Tennessee is at talent level to be able to game plan and be successful and compete against teams with superior talent, and our coaches are doing that. But if the gap is big no scheme or coaching genius is going to help. We have played several teams with better talent than we have and been a hair away from beating all of them. I believe Florida is more talented.

 

[rikberry31]

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

4. They are rational and have watched, coached, and lived a lot of football.
5. They don't gamble.

 

[Ace]

Some are saying Georgia fired Richt and got better. Nebraska fired Frank Solich and got much worse.

 

[rikberry31]

@knoxvol52 @pismonque @UTSuave’

Yeah but 75% were in Japan.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Everyone focusing exclusively on UT's football history is ignoring the fact that the men's basketball and baseball programs have both moved up tiers in the past decade.

Baseball moved up several tiers under Tony V and basketball has moved up one at least with an argument for two (from tier 4 to high tier 3, low tier 2). Both of those movements occurred during the tenures of the best coaches either program has ever seen.

What we have been historically is not what we are destined to be forever.

Don't twist this into me thinking Heup needs to be fahred, please. Just saying that every program with resources and a huge fan base is one exceptional head coach away from changing its destiny. Heupel can still be that guy--I don't think we've seen his full arc here yet.

Well...ask yourself this.

Fulmer & Neyland are probably Tier 1 right?...Heupel is for sure Tier 2

The previous coaches before Heupel were all arguably Tier 4 at best. He has for sure moved us from the Tier we had dropped to, but still can move us back to the highest level. For a coach in year 5 I'm not sure how that's not exactly where ya want to be...

 

[RandomUTfan]

So you think that the Vols should be a middle if the pack SEC team?

I assume people who try and use the history of a program pre-NIL/Portal are just arguing in bad faith. Vols aren't going to average 8 wins a season for the foreseeable future. We're having a rebuilding year because we're still down schollies and have been down schollies since Heupel took over. We have one of the youngest, but fortunately also one of the most talented, teams in the country.

I think to be disappointed with where we are, you have to have actively moved the goalposts from what most fans expectations were going into this season. Truthfully, we've looked better to my eyes than I thought we would.

 

[jave36]

Well...ask yourself this.

Fulmer & Neyland are probably Tier 1 right?...Heupel is for sure Tier 2

The previous coaches before Heupel were all arguably Tier 4 at best. He has for sure moved us from the Tier we had dropped to, but still can move us back to the highest level. For a coach in year 5 I'm not sure how that's not exactly where ya want to be...

It's not a typical year 5. Year 1 and 2 had recruiting restrictions and the potential for a mega penalty hanging over the program.

And even if it were a typical year 5, taking a program from tier 4 to tier 2 in 5 years is pretty impressive. Especially pre NIL era, which came to pass midway through the 5 years. I think almost every outsider would say "getting Tennessee to where it is from where it was in just 5 years is incredible, even if you ignore all the recruiting restrictions and sanctions and potential penalties."

 

[dmwvol12]

Why are you bothered by questions? Questions make you think. I think it makes you look at the reality of the situation and you don't like it. Me asking those questions doesn't mean I want to fire Coach Heupel. With every coach we've hired since Fulmer (not Kiffin, he wasn't here log enough) I've had a moment when I came to the realization that it wasn't going to end well. I took abuse from this very forum when I expressed concern. I've seen those same signs the Heup. I don't want him to fail, I want him to lead the VOLs to greatness. I just have seen some things that cause me to take pause.

Like I said yesterday, with an expanded playoff, almost 1/3 of SEC teams will make it. I don't think it's a stretch to think Tennessee should be in the top 1/3 of the league. If you think that's acceptable then enjoy average.

The way I see it, there will be 3-4 SEC teams that will be the 5-6 that are in every year. The rest of the middle of the pack SEC teams will fill those last spots or two. Those teams will rotate around.

All valid points. I don't mind the occasional question but you're fooling yourself if you don't realize you are feeding into the negative sentiment on this board. Frankly, I expected a little better from you. Your message is extremely clear even though you won't just come out and say it. Making a statement that a coach won't win a championship and proclaiming that as some sort of genius is a bit of a stretch. We literally have 3 active coaches with a National Championship and the most recent one was almost fired by his idiot fans before last season ended. Heupel is also not average as he was in the playoffs last year. Anyway, I took your bait so you can be satisfied that you got me.

 

[RandomUTfan]

I think I've decided engaging with the negativity on this board simply exacerbates the problem. It's almost like these folks want to start an argument sometimes.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

This is correct.

I’m a 2 at the moment, but I reserve the right to change that once I see how we and the other traditional “have” programs in this league fare once we’ve started playing the 9-1-2 schedule format.

 

[SagginVawls]

Oh absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. I think Heupel has built it up, incredibly so. The question is, can he take another step? I think most fall into 3 categories.

1. They are satisfied with being in that 8,9, occasional 10 win territory. They don't expect any different.

2. They are satisfied with the current results but expect more long term. They think he needs more time. (I sort of fall into this category but my confidence that it will get better is taking a hit)

3. A few think that he's had enough time and if he doesn't improve then he needs to go. That time allotment us 1-2 years.

Of course there are the loons thar want him gone now (very few).

I'm at a 2.1

 

[letsgoUT29]

Some are saying Georgia fired Richt and got better. Nebraska fired Frank Solich and got much worse.

I don't blame Nebraska for firing Solich. He was given the keys to a Ferrari and started running it into the ditch. Georgia took a risk on firing Richt, but Richt elevated the program and set Kirby Smart up for success. Richt was also at UGA for 15 years.

I can't think of too many comparable situations for Heupel, he took over a dead program and put us back on the national stage in year 2. Pretty remarkable when you put it in perspective.