Recruiting Forum Football Talk IX

#63,179
#63,179
MemphisVol3 said:
I personally don't know if Elko is quite Tier 2, yet. Elko is a good coach and he may break through this year but this is just his 2nd year at A&M. He was good at Duke based off what their expectations are. When I think of Tiers I usually judge based off consistent success. Cristobal has not made a single playoff appearance and many thought his path would be easier in the ACC. I can't justify having Cristobal above Heupel in Tiers.
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Yeah, you're right... other than that 12-2 season at Oregon he's really been underachieving. Freeman to Tier 2 and Mario down to Tier 3.

Elko I also get the debate...He has a real shot at finishing 12-0...I think if he accomplishes that and makes the SECC game he's there. But smaller sample size than Heupel so I can get those 2 being switched around.
 
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#63,181
#63,181
MoCo_Vol said:
Since 2021 season combined record is: 52-11 (82.5%)

Bama in same timeframe: 52-11
Ohio State in same timeframe: 55-8
Georgia in same timeframe: 60-6
Notre Dame in same timeframe: 50-13


Now if Tier 1 is exclusively based on winning titles then yeah Oregon wouldn't be in there.
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Do you consider ND Tier 1 then or just an easy cupcake schedule to look Tier 1?
 
#63,182
#63,182
Dadof2Vols said:
Do you consider ND Tier 1 then or just an easy cupcake schedule to look Tier 1?
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They have played for a natty...but also because of their cupcake schedule 50-13 seems like underachieving.

2021 - 2 losses, 7th ranked Cincinnati, 9th ranked OK State (bowl game) they had 1 top 25 win...18th Wisconsin
2022 - 4 losses, unranked Marshall & Stanford then at 2nd ranked Ohio State and at 5th ranked USC best win was over 5th ranked Clemson
2023 - 3 losses, vs 6th ranked Ohio State at 25th Louisville at unranked Clemson
2024 - 2 losses, vs unranked Northern Illinois vs 1st ranked Ohio State for natty
2025 - 2 losses, at 10th Miami vs 16th A&M

So as of today not Tier 1, but if they make a playoff appearance/run then could see them being Tier 1. Most the other Tier 1 teams don't have 4 losses to unranked teams.
 
#63,184
#63,184
Smokey123 said:
he lets the Tackle get inside leverage and immediate penetration. Threw him into Kits and caused a log jam. He didn’t whiff like sanders and Pendleton tho
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Is he supposed to block him down into Bishop's lane or hook him inside? I’m not sure how feasible it is for that not to happen when it’s a NT lined up directly over Center. That could have easily been a 2 yard loss.

JMO GBO
 
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#63,185
#63,185
InVOLuntary said:
I think there are many on this board that are good with 8,9 and the occasional 10 wins and a playoff appearance every 3-4 years.
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You are correct and I am proudly in that camp. There are also some that want to take the chance of the coaching carousel in the hopes of finding super coach. We tried the coaching carousel and it was a terrible failure. Florida and LSU are now trying that method and that appears to be failing as well. My opinion is that when you have someone with the track record of Heupel you stay the course. I also thinks it's not helpful to continually question every move he has made with the benefit of hindsight. It's negative noise that doesn't benefit the program. You have become a master at asking repeated questions with a clear agenda and then justify it with "I'm not saying anything, I'm just asking questions". Come on man. You seem to thrive in stirring the pot of negativity.
 
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#63,188
#63,188
InVOLuntary said:
I think there are many on this board that are good with 8,9 and the occasional 10 wins and a playoff appearance every 3-4 years.
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I actually think that should be the baseline expectation for the program. If someone is consistently delivering that, they should be given 7-9 years to see if they can finally punch through the top, like how Michigan dealt with Harbaugh (cheating allegations aside). If after that long a time they can’t punch through then it’s reasonable to move on.

Hopping back on board the coaching carousel every 3-4 years because someone “only wins 8 games” guarantees an extended period of something well below the baseline.
 
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#63,190
#63,190
dmwvol12 said:
You are correct and I am proudly in that camp. There are also some that want to take the chance of the coaching carousel in the hopes of finding super coach. We tried the coaching carousel and it was a terrible failure. Florida and LSU are now trying that method and that appears to be failing as well. My opinion is that when you have someone with the track record of Heupel you stay the course. I also thinks it's not helpful to continually question every move he has made with the benefit of hindsight. It's negative noise that doesn't benefit the program. You have become a master at asking repeated questions with a clear agenda and then justify it with "I'm not saying anything, I'm just asking questions". Come on man. You seem to thrive in stirring the pot of negativity.
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Why are you bothered by questions? Questions make you think. I think it makes you look at the reality of the situation and you don't like it. Me asking those questions doesn't mean I want to fire Coach Heupel. With every coach we've hired since Fulmer (not Kiffin, he wasn't here log enough) I've had a moment when I came to the realization that it wasn't going to end well. I took abuse from this very forum when I expressed concern. I've seen those same signs the Heup. I don't want him to fail, I want him to lead the VOLs to greatness. I just have seen some things that cause me to take pause.

Like I said yesterday, with an expanded playoff, almost 1/3 of SEC teams will make it. I don't think it's a stretch to think Tennessee should be in the top 1/3 of the league. If you think that's acceptable then enjoy average.

The way I see it, there will be 3-4 SEC teams that will be the 5-6 that are in every year. The rest of the middle of the pack SEC teams will fill those last spots or two. Those teams will rotate around.
 
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#63,191
#63,191
SmyrnaATLVolisback said:
It blows my mind.
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I understand both sides of the spectrum. One crowd is saying "we've seen the 9 and 10 win seasons for the last 3 or 4 years. What's the next step to achieve more".

The other crowd is saying " we're good with 9 or 10 wins per year, because it's brings stability to the sport that we haven't had in 15 years".

It's whatever you prefer... I'm from the AL Davis era, " just win baby"..
 
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#63,192
#63,192
Revived2002 said:
I actually think that should be the baseline expectation for the program. If someone is consistently delivering that, they should be given 7-9 years to see if they can finally punch through the top, like how Michigan dealt with Harbaugh (cheating allegations aside). If after that long a time they can’t punch through then it’s reasonable to move on.

Hopping back on board the coaching carousel every 3-4 years because someone “only wins 8 games” guarantees an extended period of something well below the baseline.
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And that's probably the way it will play out. The middle 1/3 of the SEC will battle for the at large bids. I think those are the 8,9 win teams. I would think the VOLS should be in the top 1/3 but I don't see it.
 
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#63,194
#63,194
You can tell when you have an offensive minded coach. All the elite athletes end up on offense. This minor tweak will do wonders for CJH. Eric Berry would’ve probably been a WR under Huep.
 
#63,195
#63,195
SmyrnaATLVolisback said:
And he got fired and they have since won two titles. I like Richt and he is a good man. What does that have to do with anything though? He didn’t win enough for a great program and they got better. That’s a fact.
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There is absolutely no comparison between the situation that Smart walked into and the one Heup inherited. Kirby was set up and he knew it. All Kirby did was keep the ball rolling, winning breeds winning. Even with his terrible qb management they still won.
 
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#63,196
#63,196
Smokey123 said:
he lets the Tackle get inside leverage and immediate penetration. Threw him into Kits and caused a log jam. He didn’t whiff like sanders and Pendleton tho
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Asking your RG to turn a zero technique out on running play to the left is tough. Should have been a double team (c/rg) to LB. Shifted right into the play almost as if they knew the tendency of that formation.
That’s been a gripe with Heupel is his tendencies are easy to figure out. Heup thought they might of figured signs. You could see them huddle on important down and distances. They still seemed to have it played perfect.
 
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#63,197
#63,197
knoxvol52 said:
I understand both sides of the spectrum. One crowd is saying "we've seen the 9 and 10 win seasons for the last 3 or 4 years. What's the next step to achieve more".

The other crowd is saying " we're good with 9 or 10 wins per year, because it's brings stability to the sport that we haven't had in 15 years".

It's whatever you prefer... I'm from the AL Davis era, " just win baby"..
Click to expand...
I bet you're nervous this time of year
 
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#63,199
#63,199
InVOLuntary said:
I think there are many on this board that are good with 8,9 and the occasional 10 wins and a playoff appearance every 3-4 years.
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Buddy it is what happens. All time Tennessee averages 8 wins a season. Alabama averages 9. To think we are going to win 11-12 games every year is ignorant and a 5 year-old expectation.
 
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#63,200
#63,200
TN has had 21 10 win seasons in the entirety of the program existing.

121 seasons, and only 21 did they finish with 10 wins.

8 by Fulmer & 5 by Neyland

Heupel has done it twice already in 4 complete years here. So I absolutely am fine with leaving him damn well alone and seeing what happens the next 3-5 years.
 
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