Recruiting Forum Football Talk IX

#63,152
#63,152
Ulysees E. McGill said:
He deserves better from us...but he ain't going to get it. All the idiots see is failure, I see something else very clearly, and I will never understand how willingly stupid you have to be to not see it...he could EASILY be undefeated right now if just 6-8 plays OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON had went our way...with a badly flawed team with glaring roster issues..

Has everybody forgotten what it felt like to get obliterated by almost every decent team we played for nearly 15 years?...what a truly bad coaching job looks like?....HOW CAN THEY FORGET?

I can't wait until Cignettis run of insane luck runs out....and it will. If that guy was the GOAT that he is suddenly getting fluffed as by all the snow blind...he would have been a great HC a LONG LONG time ago instead of showing up as a 64 year old.
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It is my observation that most people in general do not think about anything, know nothing about history and the future is "what's for lunch." Not just football, it's in everything, look at those idiots in NYC. Any Tennessee fan who has been around for more that a couple years and is upset with where we are at is an idiot or lost money on a bet.
 
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#63,155
#63,155
05_never_again said:
People get too wrapped up in the star ratings of individual players and don't pay enough attention to a team's class as a whole. There are all sorts individual players who won't pan out according to their star ratings all the time, both good and bad.

The reality though is that basically 100% of the teams who win national titles, and the vast majority of the teams who are regularly competing for titles, have rosters that are littered with 4 and 5-star recruits. Not all of those players are going to live up to their rating, but that isn't the point. The more of those recruits you have, the more you are maximizing your chances of having some of them live up to the ranking.

Over the last 10 or 15 years, is there a program who has regularly competed for titles with recruiting classes consistently outside the top 10? The only one that comes to mind is Clemson, although Dabo has had multiple classes inside the top 10. Just not as many as programs like Alabama, UGA, Ohio St, etc. There are absolutely no programs that have had an average class of say, 15th or 20th, over the last 10-15 years and have been consistently nationally relevant.
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Without knowing what "consistently nationally relevant" means to you I'm not sure if you'd agree or disagree.

I can say that there have only been 3 teams that have
1. recruited top 10 classes consistently (Bama average of 2nd rated)(Georgia average of 2.5)(Ohio State average of 4.6)
2. finished in the AP top 10 at the end of every year (Bama average of 4.8)(Georgia average of 6.3)(Ohio State average of 4.4)

Bama, Georgia, Ohio State

Notre Dame for example has finished around 11th on average and recruited the 12th best class in the last 10 years.
Clemson for example has finished around 8th on average and recruited the 9th best class in the last 10 years.
 
#63,158
#63,158
MarcoVol said:
How many elite programs are there out there?

What qualifies as elite?

What did they do in the portal?

Asking for convo, not to start an argument.
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Elite programs are Ohio State, Georgia, and Alabama currently. Clemson spent a few years in this territory but have since then dropped off for not embracing the portal. Michigan and LSU won relatively recent titles but were more “lightning in a bottle” situations.

Some, but not all of the traits needed to be considered an Elite program so don’t @me with exceptions :)

Winners - Competing for and winning National Championships in the playoff era. They generally don’t wilt in big games.

Consistent - Don’t have huge dropoffs from season to season.

Talented - Very high blue chip ratio. Taking the best out of high school and the portal. Typically get their top choices and don’t take others castoffs. Poaching wherever possible. Always upgrading players and coaches.

Committed - Cutthroat & entirely focused on doing whatever it takes to have the best football program possible. Doing things “the right way” is how non-elite programs refer to themselves.

Some will argue that Alabama is out now that they don’t have Saban but they will likely make another playoff run and have another shot to win it all.
 
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#63,159
#63,159
MemphisVol3 said:
He came back and then just stopped posting. No one ran him off this most recent time.
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He was getting his fair share of heated comments mainly because Joey started better than he expected and some of it because of Pendelton. To be fair, Joey started better than most expected. I hope he returns because he does have good info.
 
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#63,160
#63,160
dmwvol12 said:
Richt would have literally qualified for the playoffs nearly every year he coached at Georgia. He is a winner and a good human being.
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And he got fired and they have since won two titles. I like Richt and he is a good man. What does that have to do with anything though? He didn’t win enough for a great program and they got better. That’s a fact.
 
#63,161
#63,161
I think most folks will agree your "Tier 1" teams at the moment

Bama, Georgia, Ohio State & Oregon


Oregon is the one from that list that normally ranks top 10 in Transfer Portal Rankings on 247

Bama, Georgia, and Ohio State top 20 but obviously are losing as much as they are getting and have focused more on replacing with HS talent.

Ole Miss, LSU, USC are pretty high rated as well in transfer portal rankings.
 
#63,163
#63,163
MoCo_Vol said:
I think most folks will agree your "Tier 1" teams at the moment

Bama, Georgia, Ohio State & Oregon


Oregon is the one from that list that normally ranks top 10 in Transfer Portal Rankings on 247

Bama, Georgia, and Ohio State top 20 but obviously are losing as much as they are getting and have focused more on replacing with HS talent.

Ole Miss, LSU, USC are pretty high rated as well in transfer portal rankings.
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What makes Oregon tier 1? One playoff trip. One blowout loss. They do win a lot of games tho.

Not sure they’re quite tier 1 yet.
 
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#63,164
#63,164
MarcoVol said:
If we win a lot more than we lose then we will have made the playoffs many times.

I’ll take that even without winning a NC.

My life has nothing to do with college football 😂. CFB is purely entertainment.
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Not attacking you or saying that. Sorry if I did. My point is that people who generally demand greatness from themselves, demand it from their peers and in all things. And that includes literally all things.
 
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#63,166
#63,166
MoCo_Vol said:
My only changes

Tier 1 - no change
Tier 2 - Elko, Cignetti, Cristabol
Sark (if he manages 10 wins this season he'll be Tier 2)
Tier 3 - Kiffin, Lanning, Heupel, Freeman

Not sure Sark is legit Tier 2 or not...he's only had 2 10 win seasons and could end this season 1-2 and be sitting at 8-4.
Freeman inherited a moving train at ND, still playing cupcakes most the year if he was doing the same thing in Big 10 or SEC he'd be Tier 2 fringe Tier 1, but until ND wins it all or reaches a few more title games I'd have him Tier 3.
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Good stuff, I can see your disagreement and don't mind your list.

Tier 2 are guys I think are due to win it or could do so this year. Tier 3's are guys that could in the next 5 years at their current school if things fall right.

Freeman got to the Championship last year and that is the reasoning for him. To me Cignetti is the best pure coach out there. If he goes to Penn State, LSU or Florida that will be problematic to have that talent with those resources. I just don't think he has the resources at IU to compete. He would vault to a top of tier 2 or tier 1 coach if he moved.
 
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#63,167
#63,167
MarcoVol said:
If we win a lot more than we lose then we will have made the playoffs many times.

I’ll take that even without winning a NC.

My life has nothing to do with college football 😂. CFB is purely entertainment.
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All sports are for entertainment purposes, plenty of people on here will agree but there actions tell exactly the opposite... I never in my life have been sick after any loss...in College or Professional sports. Example I was totally prepared for Dodgers to lose and not lose any sleep over it...
 
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#63,168
#63,168
MarcoVol said:
What makes Oregon tier 1? One playoff trip. One blowout loss. They do win a lot of games tho.

Not sure they’re quite tier 1 yet.
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Since 2021 season combined record is: 52-11 (82.5%)

Bama in same timeframe: 52-11
Ohio State in same timeframe: 55-8
Georgia in same timeframe: 60-6
Notre Dame in same timeframe: 50-13


Now if Tier 1 is exclusively based on winning titles then yeah Oregon wouldn't be in there.
 
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#63,170
#63,170
SmyrnaATLVolisback said:
Yikes. No.

Unless you mean that we have made the playoff many times and actually had some runs.

But just to win more than we lose and not win anything of substance is crazy to me. People need higher expectations of our program and honestly their own life. Be a winner and demand winning in all things.
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I think there are many on this board that are good with 8,9 and the occasional 10 wins and a playoff appearance every 3-4 years.
 
#63,171
#63,171
dmwvol12 said:
Yep. The new method of negativity is to say I’m not saying we should fire Heupel, BUT….. Followed by 30 questions with a clear agenda to minimize everything he’s done and to question his ability. It’s passive aggressive behavior with a clear agenda to sow doubt and question his ability. It’s frustrating but pretty clear it won’t change. This forum like’s too make fun of the football forum but is getting closer by the day. Look who’s no longer here and what has filled the void? We do still have some reasonable fans but it’s getting harder to ignore all the nonsense. Thank goodness Freak has the ignore feature.
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😅
 
#63,173
#63,173
itsme said:
Good stuff, I can see your disagreement and don't mind your list.

Tier 2 are guys I think are due to win it or could do so this year. Tier 3's are guys that could in the next 5 years at their current school if things fall right.

Freeman got to the Championship last year and that is the reasoning for him. To me Cignetti is the best pure coach out there. If he goes to Penn State, LSU or Florida that will be problematic to have that talent with those resources. I just don't think he has the resources at IU to compete. He would vault to a top of tier 2 or tier 1 coach if he moved.
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Yeah, Freeman is right there...I think he's a great coach as well. Mostly penalizing him because he hasn't built anything from ashes (like the guys I had Tier 2) but he does have a better shot at winning it all over potentially all 3 I had listed too.

What's weird is I think Indiana might be a bit of a dark horse. There is winning tradition there (basketball program) and I'm positive most those fans would be more than happy to have a winning football program. The question is how well can you recruit that area, and based on some of the surrounding schools that have been strong football programs without having to recruit out of Florida, Texas or California I think it's possible Indiana could build its brand to equal levels with Penn State.

If you look at rankings and keep up with it you'll see Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Michigan in most top 10 list and Indiana is top 20 itself. So if he can build the pipelines he could build a Dabo level dynasty there with less stress than LSU or Florida will put on him.
 
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#63,175
#63,175
MoCo_Vol said:
Yeah, Freeman is right there...I think he's a great coach as well. Mostly penalizing him because he hasn't built anything from ashes (like the guys I had Tier 2) but he does have a better shot at winning it all over potentially all 3 I had listed too.

What's weird is I think Indiana might be a bit of a dark horse. There is winning tradition there (basketball program) and I'm positive most those fans would be more than happy to have a winning football program. The question is how well can you recruit that area, and based on some of the surrounding schools that have been strong football programs without having to recruit out of Florida, Texas or California I think it's possible Indiana could build its brand to equal levels with Penn State.

If you look at rankings and keep up with it you'll see Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Michigan in most top 10 list and Indiana is top 20 itself. So if he can build the pipelines he could build a Dabo level dynasty there with less stress than LSU or Florida will put on him.
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I personally don't know if Elko is quite Tier 2, yet. Elko is a good coach and he may break through this year but this is just his 2nd year at A&M. He was good at Duke based off what their expectations are. When I think of Tiers I usually judge based off consistent success. Cristobal has not made a single playoff appearance and many thought his path would be easier in the ACC. I can't justify having Cristobal above Heupel in Tiers.
 
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