Josh and the clock

#1

oldvol50

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#1
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.
 
#2
#2
Would be interesting to get the UT school of engineering involved and leverage Ai.

Build a real time game feed, to weigh the game situation (time, score, TOs, etc) vs opponent tendencies v. Plus player groupings , etc.

It can generate an evolving dashboard of recommended O & D sets, plays, etc

Presents coaches options to consider in addition to innate coaching knowledge because the brain cannot efficiently process that much data.

Similar to some ways the military uses Ai to assess and manage battle data for commanders.

You could also build in a counter tendency algorithm to ensure that you break up your play calls to confuse your opponent
 
#4
#4
djwes - Maybe the AI can at least manage the timeouts for him...and light a fire up his *** when he trots out the same playcall after the timeout
That would be a fairly easy algorithm to write.

Didn’t Butch Jones say some stupid **** about a chart at one point when he did something dumb with TOs or plays
 
#5
#5
I get really bothered when we are under a minute and run off 20+ seconds between plays while holding 3 timeouts…I understand the need to try to save that final TO but if the clock is running and you have to signal in the play, check out the D, adjust the play…just take that first timeout and plan the next three plays…
 
#6
#6
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.
He screwed the pooch in the first half against Bama. By worrying about the clock and letting it run down so far he probably left two plays on the drawing board. Two more opportunities to run the ball. If it fails you kick the field goal. If they did that as we saw in the second half they came out stopped Bama and Tennessee scored 7.
At that point Tennessee would have been ahead.
 
#9
#9
Idk what he thinks when we get toward the end of a half or game. I understand he doesn’t want the other team to get the ball back. But, he has to give his offense time to score and beyond 1-2 plays.
 
#10
#10
I will mention one more thing that surprised me. In 2022, Hooker hit Bru to set up the game -winning field goal.

I didn’t know until last week that Heup thought about taking a knee and go to overtime.

According to the announcer of the Lions’ last game, Heup asked Hooker what he wanted to do. Hooker responded: “gone in the game, now.”

Maybe I am reading too much into it.
 
#11
#11
Need a clock coach. They have enough coaches and analysts around but you see each week around football continuous clock management errors. Need a timeout coach who tells the HC when to call one based on play, failed position, time, etc. and be their sole focus. HC has 100 things going on.
Analyze each week for time saved or shoulda spiked the ball and saved one.
 
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#13
#13
Would be interesting to get the UT school of engineering involved and leverage Ai.

Build a real time game feed, to weigh the game situation (time, score, TOs, etc) vs opponent tendencies v. Plus player groupings , etc.

It can generate an evolving dashboard of recommended O & D sets, plays, etc

Presents coaches options to consider in addition to innate coaching knowledge because the brain cannot efficiently process that much data.

Similar to some ways the military uses Ai to assess and manage battle data for commanders.

You could also build in a counter tendency algorithm to ensure that you break up your play calls to confuse your opponent
It’s really not that difficult and doesn’t require AI or an engineering degree to figure out. 10 year olds who have been playing Madden for a couple of years can manage the clock. It is truly the one element of coaching where you could find someone on the couch who never played the game who could do an adequate job. But certainly coaches, Heupel being one, are just horrendous at it. One of the most perplexing things in sports.
 
#15
#15
Need a clock coach. They have enough coaches and analysts around but you see each week around football continuous clock management errors. Need a timeout coach who tells the HC when to call one based on play, failed position, time, etc. and be their sole focus. HC has 100 things going on.
Analyze each week for time saved or shoulda spiked the ball and saved one.
Ridiculous. Every facet of the game has its own coach these days. I’m not sure of heups involvement with the offensive calling at this point, but if he can’t handle time outs he might ought to seek a new profession.
 
#18
#18
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.
I totally agree and you have said this as well as could be said.
 
#19
#19
Ridiculous. Every facet of the game has its own coach these days. I’m not sure of heups involvement with the offensive calling at this point, but if he can’t handle time outs he might ought to seek a new profession.
From every where I have read, Hype is calling the offfense play calling, oc is in the booth telling him what he sees and Hype calls the plays. I have researched this out and this is what I have come up with. Also when Golesh was here Golesh was calling the plays.
 
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#20
#20
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.

Sound analysis and good points. It’s year five and we’ve gotten to know him, as have other coaches. I just don’t see this leopard changing his spots at this point. Hope I’m wrong.
 
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#21
#21
Ridiculous. Every facet of the game has its own coach these days. I’m not sure of heups involvement with the offensive calling at this point, but if he can’t handle time outs he might ought to seek a new profession.
Coaches all day Saturday and Sunday screw up clock management. Saban did it against us when we beat him. Maybe they should all quit.
 
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#22
#22
Would be interesting to get the UT school of engineering involved and leverage Ai.

Build a real time game feed, to weigh the game situation (time, score, TOs, etc) vs opponent tendencies v. Plus player groupings , etc.

It can generate an evolving dashboard of recommended O & D sets, plays, etc

Presents coaches options to consider in addition to innate coaching knowledge because the brain cannot efficiently process that much data.

Similar to some ways the military uses Ai to assess and manage battle data for commanders.

You could also build in a counter tendency algorithm to ensure that you break up your play calls to confuse your opponent
AI will just tell you what it thinks you want to hear.
 
#24
#24
Folks can always improve, he needs an inside 2:00 minute clock advisor. Just like a spotter in nascar, somebody has the sole job to make sure our coach knows the time out situation and updated on the clock after every play inside 2 minutes. With all the coaches and consultants we have, there has to be somebody that would be great at this. And this is not intended to be a knock on Heupel, many very good and even great coaches have struggled with time management in critical situations. The head coach has a lot going on especially if he is calling or has a huge impact on play calls. It’s not as easy for them as it is for us watching. But never less, it’s an important area to work on. Heupel is a very good coach, but like any coach there are always areas to improve. GBO
 
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