Josh and the clock

#28
#28
farmdogvol said:
If Max makes the field goal and Joey throws a TD pass CJH has brilliant clock management. Sometimes the team just has to execute better.
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Naw, it still sucks.

If I’m driving down a 2 lane road in the wrong lane, and right before a collision, I swerve back into the correct lane before impact …..Sure, I’m alive, but most certainly was not driving brilliantly.
 
#30
#30
farmdogvol said:
If Max makes the field goal and Joey throws a TD pass CJH has brilliant clock management. Sometimes the team just has to execute better.
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Right? It’s never as simple as just one thing. If we score before the half at bama there was zero time in the clock and we are in the ball game. JA has to make a better pass. Players have to execute before we can blame coaching or clock mgmt
 
#31
#31
oldvol50 said:
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.
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I to used to think he was a “gunslinger”,
I’ve changed my mind. It seems now he is the epitome of conservative. Maybe other teams have adjusted or whatever but heupel has done a 180 from the first year at tennessee.
 
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#33
#33
zjcvols said:
That does not forgive the end of the Miss State game
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He tied the game with 1:55 left. Is that to much time left or not enough? Should he have burned more time before they finally scored the tying touchdown? They then scored on 1 play in overtime. Not sure how he messed up the end of the MSU game.
 
#34
#34
djwes said:
Would be interesting to get the UT school of engineering involved and leverage Ai.

Build a real time game feed, to weigh the game situation (time, score, TOs, etc) vs opponent tendencies v. Plus player groupings , etc.

It can generate an evolving dashboard of recommended O & D sets, plays, etc

Presents coaches options to consider in addition to innate coaching knowledge because the brain cannot efficiently process that much data.

Similar to some ways the military uses Ai to assess and manage battle data for commanders.

You could also build in a counter tendency algorithm to ensure that you break up your play calls to confuse your opponent
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Yeah, I got a bit pushback with that idea. One thing's for sure - someone's using it against us.
 
#35
#35
farmdogvol said:
He tied the game with 1:55 left. Is that to much time left or not enough? Should he have burned more time before they finally scored the tying touchdown? They then scored on 1 play in overtime. Not sure how he messed up the end of the MSU game.
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We had the ball with 13 seconds and two TO’s with clock stopped at the Miss State 44 and only got one play off because he didn’t use a TO after the Bishop run. It was malpractice
 
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#36
#36
oldvol50 said:
It's difficult to criticize Josh given what he has accomplished since taking over what was a dumpster fire. But the last few games it seems the end of half and end of games is an issue. Josh by nature is a gunslinger, a gambler and the Vols have been tremendously entertaining because of this.

But when Josh goes into clock watching mode he is out of his natural element. Down the stretch against UGA the quick out to Kitselman was pure aggressive genius. But after that it was as if he was more worried about mistakes and leaving time on the clock. And that change in attitude gets noted by the players who get hesitant and play not to screw up rather than play loose and free. At MSU it seemed Josh was really concerned with leaving 30 or 40 seconds on the clock. Same thing at the end of the first half at Bama.

The team feeds off Josh's gunslinger mentality and when he shelves that, they have to notice. It comes across as not trusting his team to execute on offense and not trusting his defense to hold the fort for 30 or 40 seconds. His wide open approach gives the players confidence but when he goes conservative, it goes from "let's make a play" to "let's not mess up." Players get tentative. For example when he ran Gilbert out for the FG there was time for another play, but Josh seemed more afraid of another false start or mistake. Consciously or unconsciously the team has to notice.

The team is best when it takes on Josh's natural instincts to let it rip and force the issue. The team feeds off Josh, often playing over their heads and it's beautiful to watch. Playing conservative is not his thing and the confidence of the players soars when Josh goes for the goods. So I hope he gets over this extreme clock watching and "quits laying up but instead goes for the green" in true Josh Heupel fashion.
Click to expand...
With Josh, the traditional 2 minute exercise has become a 30 second offense drill.

Hasn't worked yet, but maybe he knows what he's doing. Beats me?

It works in the NFL, but they have far more allowable practice time.
 
#38
#38
Clock management has to improve.

I’m sure continuous improvement in all aspects of game management is the goal

None of us are perfect and we should expect improvement.
 
#39
#39
He's always been bad at clock/game management. Even going back to his UCF days. Do you all remember the Arkansas game last year? After the long completion to Donte Thornton on the final drive, there were 35 seconds on the clock. 14 seconds ran off the clock before the next snap. It was inexcusable and just another example of how poorly he handles these situations.
 
#40
#40
I think tempo offenses in general just get so caught up in snapping it fast sometimes that they burn clock when they don’t need to. It’s a great offense with 2 minutes to go, but under a minute, nobody can play fast enough to overcome a running clock. Every game there feels like one situation where we try to run a play when we needed to slow down and clock it or just use timeouts.
 
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#41
#41
I like Josh and he has a lot of strengths, but he needs to hand off clock management. Lots of very intelligent people with average processing speed. I think he is one of those.
 
#42
#42
djwes said:
Would be interesting to get the UT school of engineering involved and leverage Ai.

Build a real time game feed, to weigh the game situation (time, score, TOs, etc) vs opponent tendencies v. Plus player groupings , etc.

It can generate an evolving dashboard of recommended O & D sets, plays, etc

Presents coaches options to consider in addition to innate coaching knowledge because the brain cannot efficiently process that much data.

Similar to some ways the military uses Ai to assess and manage battle data for commanders.

You could also build in a counter tendency algorithm to ensure that you break up your play calls to confuse your opponent
Click to expand...
If AI is smarter at knowing what is going on than the staff then we are in trouble
 
#43
#43
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
It’s really not that difficult and doesn’t require AI or an engineering degree to figure out. 10 year olds who have been playing Madden for a couple of years can manage the clock. It is truly the one element of coaching where you could find someone on the couch who never played the game who could do an adequate job. But certainly coaches, Heupel being one, are just horrendous at it. One of the most perplexing things in sports.
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This will get you fired in the NFL. In college, acquiring and developing talent as well as scheming are at such a premium that being an idiot with the clock is tolerated.
 
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