President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#43,801
#43,801
85SugarVol said:
That’s a very pretty picture. Though more than a bit utopian.

Research at Universities should be funded. I agree.
But innovation certainly comes from the Private sector as well.

The next generation of pharmaceuticals is not springing forth from some altruistic collective.
I seriously doubt the next generation of medical devices are either.

I’m not saying there isn’t waste and inefficiency. Bureaucracy and profit centers at multiple levels.

But no, I’m not buying that removing profit incentive from the entire system will result in no degradation on the innovation front, as the slack is picked up by a combination of the State (lolz) and Altruists.
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How is it utopian when the rest of the developed world already uses it in some form or another? American exceptionalism has seeped into the conversation about healthcare to our detriment. Do you think pharmaceuticals will cease to innovate if we join the rest of the world in single payor? No. Will profit margins shrink, probably. Should they be allowed to price-gouge Americans like they currently do? I’ll let you answer that one.

I have worked in healthcare my entire adult life and seen it from many aspects. The system we have causes undue financial harm to millions while non-medical capitalists get filthy rich. That is not what healthcare is meant to be. If you do good for people on the clinical front you deserve to make a very comfortable living. If you run a private equity firm and buy a hospital/healthcare system, rack up debt in the name of that system to pour money back into your firm and let the hospitals die on the vine (especially in underserved communities), you deserve to be hung by your toes and tarred/feathered. Our system is sick, and it’s due to profiteering. Sorry.
 
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#43,804
#43,804
luthervol said:
lol....you can't be serious.

You know and I know that there is no way in hell you would be receptive to me "explaining" anything to you.

I simply attempt to weave a scenario that makes people think in a different way.
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I'll let my points stand on their own. To be honest, I'm dumbfounded by the stupidity of your post, and that's after years of reading your posts.
 
#43,808
#43,808
OHvol40 said:
Agreed, and funding is being cut by this admin. The fallacy that for-profit healthcare drives innovation is exactly that, a fallacy. This is for several reasons.
1. Healthcare is altruistic in nature, removing for-profit providers does not reduce the drive to innovate for the good of humanity.
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That’s a lot of altruistic endeavors people don’t pursue because of the lack of profit.

OHvol40 said:
2. Research can and should be publicly funded. If the people get to choose what and how to fund research based on their own needs rather than what would bring the most profits, we are removing a hurdle toward pure-intentioned research.
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The purity of the intention of research, that’s kinda adorable.

OHvol40 said:
3. Having a single payor or primary payor system creates a reliable and competitive market for better and more efficient products, but with better incentive. Instead of cheapest being best, effectiveness and efficiency will be king.
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If literally creates the exact opposite of everything you just said. In no way does our system demonstrate a desire towards “cheapest being best”. If anything we skew to the opposite and universal systems skew towards “cheapest being best”

OHvol40 said:
4. Incentive for preventative public health, and innovation in this sector. Proactive instead of reactive healthcare.
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Preventative healthcare has been an overpriced talking point that has only increased cost.

OHvol40 said:
5. Reduction in administrative waste.
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It’s the government that creates administrative waste. Not the market.
 
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#43,811
#43,811
OHvol40 said:
How is it utopian when the rest of the developed world already uses it in some form or another? American exceptionalism has seeped into the conversation about healthcare to our detriment. Do you think pharmaceuticals will cease to innovate if we join the rest of the world in single payor? No. Will profit margins shrink, probably. Should they be allowed to price-gouge Americans like they currently do? I’ll let you answer that one.

I have worked in healthcare my entire adult life and seen it from many aspects. The system we have causes undue financial harm to millions while non-medical capitalists get filthy rich. That is not what healthcare is meant to be. If you do good for people on the clinical front you deserve to make a very comfortable living. If you run a private equity firm and buy a hospital/healthcare system, rack up debt in the name of that system to pour money back into your firm and let the hospitals die on the vine (especially in underserved communities), you deserve to be hung by your toes and tarred/feathered. Our system is sick, and it’s due to profiteering. Sorry.
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🩸❤️ The reason many private physicians and rural hospitals went under is bc of Obamacare.

But single payor creates competition. What a joke.
 
#43,812
#43,812
Vol8188 said:
That’s a lot of altruistic endeavors people don’t pursue because of the lack of profit.



The purity of the intention of research, that’s kinda adorable.



If literally creates the exact opposite of everything you just said. In no way does our system demonstrate a desire towards “cheapest being best”. If anything we skew to the opposite and universal systems skew towards “cheapest being best”



Preventative healthcare has been an overpriced talking point that has only increased cost.



It’s the government that creates administrative waste. Not the market.
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Careful. He may call you a name and put you on ignore. I looked for an ICD-10 code for thin skin. Because he has it.
 
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#43,816
#43,816
OHvol40 said:
How is it utopian when the rest of the developed world already uses it in some form or another? American exceptionalism has seeped into the conversation about healthcare to our detriment. Do you think pharmaceuticals will cease to innovate if we join the rest of the world in single payor? No. Will profit margins shrink, probably. Should they be allowed to price-gouge Americans like they currently do? I’ll let you answer that one.
Click to expand...

We produce the majority of new drugs in the world.

OHvol40 said:
I have worked in healthcare my entire adult life and seen it from many aspects. The system we have causes undue financial harm to millions while non-medical capitalists get filthy rich.
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Sounds like a government problem not a market problem. But can you be specific about who these non-medical capitalists are?

OHvol40 said:
That is not what healthcare is meant to be. If you do good for people on the clinical front you deserve to make a very comfortable living.
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I do. Thanks.

OHvol40 said:
If you run a private equity firm and buy a hospital/healthcare system, rack up debt in the name of that system to pour money back into your firm and let the hospitals die on the vine (especially in underserved communities), you deserve to be hung by your toes and tarred/feathered. Our system is sick, and it’s due to profiteering. Sorry.
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In your mind private equity firms profit from running hospitals into the ground and you think it’s the market that incentivizes this?

Please explain.
 
#43,820
#43,820
OHvol40 said:
How is it utopian when the rest of the developed world already uses it in some form or another? American exceptionalism has seeped into the conversation about healthcare to our detriment. Do you think pharmaceuticals will cease to innovate if we join the rest of the world in single payor? No. Will profit margins shrink, probably. Should they be allowed to price-gouge Americans like they currently do? I’ll let you answer that one.

I have worked in healthcare my entire adult life and seen it from many aspects. The system we have causes undue financial harm to millions while non-medical capitalists get filthy rich. That is not what healthcare is meant to be. If you do good for people on the clinical front you deserve to make a very comfortable living. If you run a private equity firm and buy a hospital/healthcare system, rack up debt in the name of that system to pour money back into your firm and let the hospitals die on the vine (especially in underserved communities), you deserve to be hung by your toes and tarred/feathered. Our system is sick, and it’s due to profiteering. Sorry.
Click to expand...
What’s utopian is the very pretty picture of how this Universal system is going to work here. Especially when we actually know how it works in many other parts of the world.

No one is saying there isn’t profiteering in the system. There is.
And if you remove all profit incentive, you will eliminate the opportunity for profiteering.

But it is naive (and more than a bit utopian) to believe that by removing the profit motive you will accrue all the positives you hope for, while sidestepping any negatives that would naturally come with.
 
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