War in Ukraine

#88,701
#88,701
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, no...

There's a WHOLE lot of blame to go around about who started it. Putin might have pulled the proverbial trigger, but the US, Russia, EU, Ukraine, NATO, the MIC, etc, etc, etc all have some part in this.

You can't place the blame on one person here at all.
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NATO didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The US didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The EU didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The "MIC" didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.

Putin chose to invade Ukraine.
 
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#88,702
#88,702
dalton_vol said:
that's not true? They were certain parts of Ukraine the lines way more with Russia than Ukraine and they wanted to be a part of Russia
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Yes, there are Russian-speaking areas that are sympathetic to Russia, but it is Russian propaganda that they want to give up their sovereignty. Their referendums they took are not reliable at all.

According to ChatGPT, No credible, current polling supports the claim that any Ukrainian region—with the possible exception of some parts of the de facto DPR/LPR under Russian occupation—is dominated by a true majority desiring annexation by Russia.

In other words, the people who are potentially scared of their Russian occupiers (or the polls could be compromised in 100 ways) are the only ones who are coming out as a majority in favor of Russian annexation.

And somebody can correct me, but these are the spots Russia would give up in this deal, so the war isn't even about these supposed Russian majorities getting what they want (annexation).
 
#88,705
#88,705
BeardedVol said:
NATO didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The US didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The EU didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The "MIC" didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.

Putin chose to invade Ukraine.
Click to expand...

That's insane mentality. Russia didn't force the Ukraine to put up a fight, so? They could all be at the real beach party in Crimea.
 
#88,706
#88,706
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, no...

There's a WHOLE lot of blame to go around about who started it. Putin might have pulled the proverbial trigger, but the US, Russia, EU, Ukraine, NATO, the MIC, etc, etc, etc all have some part in this.

You can't place the blame on one person here at all.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, the history of Ukraine and Russia is long and complicated.
 
#88,712
#88,712
BeardedVol said:
Is this where you channel your inner Rasputin_Vol and regurgitate a bunch of nonsense to try to justify Putin invading and occupying parts of Ukraine for the last 11 years?
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Why didn't who ever was president 11 years ago do something at the time? Seems that would have been the time to handle it.
 
#88,715
#88,715
BeardedVol said:
NATO didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The US didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The EU didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The "MIC" didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.

Putin chose to invade Ukraine.
Click to expand...
You’re probably correct…but we all should wonder how the 20% of USA uranium might’ve emboldened ole Vlad. Yes or no?
 
#88,716
#88,716
BeardedVol said:
Dropping explosive drones on apartment buildings isn't "forcing people to die"?

What a strange world you inhabit.
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They can just surrender. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, you are saying that one side has to take it and not doing anything back. Nobody is forcing the Ukrainians to fight.
 
#88,720
#88,720
Sandman 423 said:
Why didn't who ever was president 11 years ago do something at the time? Seems that would have been the time to handle it.
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I agree. Obama should have leveled crippling sanctions against Russia, and armed Ukraine to the teeth instead of letting Angela Merkel take point given that Germany was already addicted to cheap Russian natural gas; definitely a huge failure on his part.

Followed up by Trump who actually tried to remove sanctions on Russian oligarchs in his first term, and Biden who had the worst National Security team ever till January 20th 2025, and it's been a decade long disaster as far as US leadership is concerned.
 
#88,721
#88,721
BeardedVol said:
Is this where you channel your inner Rasputin_Vol and regurgitate a bunch of nonsense to try to justify Putin invading and occupying parts of Ukraine for the last 11 years?
Click to expand...

Nah, but you seem really open minded to discussing how a lot of factors could play into it.

Good job on keeping an open mind and discussion.
 
#88,722
#88,722
BeardedVol said:
I agree. Obama should have leveled crippling sanctions against Russia, and armed them to the teeth instead of letting Angela Merkel take point given that Germany was already addicted to cheap Russian natural gas; definitely a huge failure on his part.

Followed up by Trump who actually tried to remove sanctions on Russian oligarchs in his first term, and Biden who had the worst National Security since January 20th 2025, and it's been a decade long disaster as far as US leadership is concerned.
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That is basically what happened, your government overthrew the government and started arming the Ukraine. That is why dead people. See, its not complex.

They did what you wanted them to do, but you want them to do more of the same.

Now, you are too chicken to sign up and finish what you started. They now need more meat, someone like you will do... they just need you to sit in a ditch for a bit.
 
#88,723
#88,723
Seems like this was pretty well agreed ahead of time and the Europeans being there is designed to reinforce the authenticity of the security guarantees.
 
#88,724
#88,724
LSU-SIU said:
That is basically what happened, your government overthrew the government and started arming the Ukraine. That is why dead people. See, its not complex.

They did what you wanted them to do, but you want them to do more of the same.

Now, you are too chicken to sign up and finish what you started. They now need more meat, someone like you will do... they just need you to sit in a ditch for a bit.
Click to expand...

Look at all those US politicians.
 
#88,725
#88,725
Grand Vol said:
Nah, but you seem really open minded to discussing how a lot of factors could play into it.

Good job on keeping an open mind and discussion.
Click to expand...

Please, enlighten me how the EU/NATO/US MIC were factors in Putin deciding to invade Ukraine in 2014, and escalate that invasion in 2022.

I mean, Putin himself has said that he wouldn't have invaded 'had Trump been president', right?
 
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