War in Ukraine

#88,677
#88,677
MercyPercy said:
Putin also wasn't going to invade Ukraine according the VN experts of yesteryear such as yourself.

I'm not sure what is stopping him at this point, Europe seems completely either unable or unwilling to defend themselves and the USA is basically throwing our hands in the air and saying it's up to Ukraine to accept some terrible deal where they lose a big percentage of land full of natural resources. Is that the best option for Ukraine at this point? Maybe so, considering the extent of the help they are receiving from us and Europe is simply stalling Russia as they continue to thow more and more peasants to the front lines.

And if they do make that deal we can expect Russia will be back for more in a few years. They didn't hold to the last deal, I don't know why we would expect them to follow through on a new one.
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that's not accurate. Putin wanted the certain regions because those regions wanted to be part of Russia. Zelinski didn't want that. If you putin does want to continue into other countries and breaks any treaty, then America and nato should send troops over, I dont think its going to happen.
 
#88,679
#88,679
lawgator1 said:
He gets asked a question about security guarantees and he goes on for a solid two minutes about how he won in 2020.
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Here’s my problem. All Trump wants to do is pat himself on the back per usual. And at least 3 times he blamed the war on Biden. True that Biden probably didn’t do enough to try to negotiate a peace but he also wasn’t going to stroke Putin like Trump seems to want to do.

There is ONE person to blame for this war and that is Putin. Period, end of discussion. And Trump needs to make that clear rather than wasting everyone’s time blaming Biden. We know better. Biden (like Trump) did plenty of dumb 💩 but this one ain’t on him.

If I’m Zelensky, I might give Putin something in the negotiation to try to end it but I don’t believe Putin will ever stop the aggression. Give him some and he’ll just try to take more. And the European Union knows this. That’s why 6 of them came to the meeting. It looks like an impasse to me before it ever gets started. Ukraine has rejected the first section of land that Russia named.
 
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#88,681
#88,681
Delmar said:
Here’s my problem. All Trump wants to do is pat himself on the back per usual. And at least 3 times he blamed the war on Biden. True that Biden probably didn’t do enough to try to negotiate a peace but he also wasn’t going to stroke Putin like Trump seems to want to do.

There is ONE person to blame for this war and that is Putin. Period, end of discussion. And Trump needs to make that clear rather than wasting everyone’s time blaming Biden. We know better. Biden (like Trump) did plenty of dumb 💩 but this one ain’t on him.

If I’m Zelensky, I might give Putin something in the negotiation to try to end it but I don’t believe Putin will ever stop the aggression. Give him some and he’ll just try to take more. And the European Union knows this. That’s why 6 of them came to the meeting. It looks like an impasse to me before it ever gets started. Ukraine has rejected the first section of land that Russia named.
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Not sure Trump is even helping the situation. I guess he is at least trying and that makes him better than others but it is clear he doesn't seem to be on the same page as either Putin or Zelensky.
 
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#88,684
#88,684
volbound1700 said:
Not sure Trump is even helping the situation. I guess he is at least trying and that makes him better than others but it is clear he doesn't seem to be on the same page as either Putin or Zelensky.
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The pages are pretty limited. Putin wants certain parts of ukraine, zielinsky doesn't want want to make peace but doesn't have the Manpower to hold Russia back. That's pretty much where we stand.
 
#88,691
#88,691
dalton_vol said:
that's not accurate. Putin wanted the certain regions because those regions wanted to be part of Russia. Zelinski didn't want that. If you putin does want to continue into other countries and breaks any treaty, then America and nato should send troops over, I dont think its going to happen.
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If you're not 100% committed to the death cult, you're obviously a Da Poootin stooge.

/s

Its been the same gag over and over for 60+ years, my whole life and some more. Next, the Taliban is the bad guys again, oops, already happening. I'm waiting for us to circle back around to Vietnam. They will be 100% convince they got it right this time. Heck, why not just go bomb Libya again. (rinse and repeat) All of this makes complete sense to them, I just wish the programmers were more creative but I think the wheels are starting to fall off now. Went from throwing American soldiers lives away for no reason to Americans not even wanting to send phony money on the phony war.
 
#88,692
#88,692
LSU-SIU said:
If you're not 100% committed to the death cult, you're obviously a Da Poootin stooge.

/s

Its been the same gag over and over for 60+ years, my whole life and some more. Next, the Taliban is the bad guys again, oops, already happening. I'm waiting for us to circle back around to Vietnam. They will be 100% convince they got it right this time. Heck, why not just go bomb Libya again. (rinse and repeat) All of this makes complete sense to them, I just wish the programmers were more creative but I think the wheels are starting to fall off now. Went from throwing American soldiers lives away for no reason to Americans not even wanting to send phony money on the phony war.
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1755541252491.jpeg
 
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#88,693
#88,693
Delmar said:
Here’s my problem. All Trump wants to do is pat himself on the back per usual. And at least 3 times he blamed the war on Biden. True that Biden probably didn’t do enough to try to negotiate a peace but he also wasn’t going to stroke Putin like Trump seems to want to do.

There is ONE person to blame for this war and that is Putin. Period, end of discussion. And Trump needs to make that clear rather than wasting everyone’s time blaming Biden. We know better. Biden (like Trump) did plenty of dumb 💩 but this one ain’t on him.

If I’m Zelensky, I might give Putin something in the negotiation to try to end it but I don’t believe Putin will ever stop the aggression. Give him some and he’ll just try to take more. And the European Union knows this. That’s why 6 of them came to the meeting. It looks like an impasse to me before it ever gets started. Ukraine has rejected the first section of land that Russia named.
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I disagree with your premise but basically the Ukraine doesn't really have any cards, if there are cards they're basically a long shot.

It looks like an impasse to me before it ever gets started.
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There is an "impasse" because the Europeans and the leadership in the Ukraine can't have the war stop. What does the Ukrainians leadership have to offer that would address the issue(s) the Russians have and what do you think will happen to them once the war stops?
 
#88,694
#88,694
Delmar said:
Here’s my problem. All Trump wants to do is pat himself on the back per usual. And at least 3 times he blamed the war on Biden. True that Biden probably didn’t do enough to try to negotiate a peace but he also wasn’t going to stroke Putin like Trump seems to want to do.

There is ONE person to blame for this war and that is Putin. Period, end of discussion. And Trump needs to make that clear rather than wasting everyone’s time blaming Biden. We know better. Biden (like Trump) did plenty of dumb 💩 but this one ain’t on him.

If I’m Zelensky, I might give Putin something in the negotiation to try to end it but I don’t believe Putin will ever stop the aggression. Give him some and he’ll just try to take more. And the European Union knows this. That’s why 6 of them came to the meeting. It looks like an impasse to me before it ever gets started. Ukraine has rejected the first section of land that Russia named.
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Zelensky has lost Crimea. I'm reasonably certain he's not getting that back. I'm not familiar enough with the various provinces and areas of Ukraine that MIGHT actually want to be Russian but I'm unclear why they didn't carve themselves out in the 90s as the USSR fell and modern Russia was being created.

Putin wants Russia to have a show of strength in the area like he did when Obama rolled over on Crimea. Hopefully, Europe and America don't allow that. Anything Russia wants to do militarily to flex needs to be shut down. A stronger, emboldened Russia is good for no one on Earth.
 
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#88,695
#88,695
LSU-SIU said:
I disagree with your premise but basically the Ukraine doesn't really have any cards, if there are cards they're basically a long shot.



There is an "impasse" because the Europeans and the leadership in the Ukraine can't have the war stopped. What does the Ukraine have to offer that would address the issue(s) the Russians have?
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Might does not make right. By that logic the US is entitled to take over Australia because we can.
 
#88,696
#88,696
lawgator1 said:
Might does not make right. By that logic the US is entitled to take over Australia because we can.
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Actually the U.S. has control of Iraq and has invaded Syria right now and has invaded and lost in multiple countries in your lifetime. The Russians seems to have reasons why they are there, whether you think that is valid reason is not relevant. It would seem like that has to be addressed for their to be a deal.

The Europeans and leadership in the Ukraine don't want the war to end, but even if they did the deal is not going be ideal as they have no real cards.

The best time for the Ukraine to strike a fairly good arrangement was in the summer/fall of 2022, I said the deal would get worse every day. Why? Obvious observation.

War in Ukraine
2022
No, what I am saying is even through force they realistically won't get the land back, the best time to get a deal done was yesterday, and the day before that and the day before that, etc.

If all you are doing is retreating than a deal protecting what you have today is better than waiting till tomorrow.
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Nothing complex about any of this.

stop_dont_come_back_willy_wonka.gif
 
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#88,698
#88,698
Delmar said:
There is ONE person to blame for this war and that is Putin. Period, end of discussion.
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Yeah, no...

There's a WHOLE lot of blame to go around about who started it. Putin might have pulled the proverbial trigger, but the US, Russia, EU, Ukraine, NATO, the MIC, etc, etc, etc all have some part in this.

You can't place the blame on one person here at all.
 
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