War in Ukraine

[norrislakevol]

So you think Putin will just quit land grabbing now? Like he did after Obama let him walk into Crimea........ only he didn't.

The ONLY reason it cost Russia militarily is because we gave them the weapons. Without US/NATO support, what makes you think Ukraine can stop Russia now or ever?

That's the whole point of joining NATO, so Russia can't just bully them.

You're not wrong, but the U.S. and the rest of NATO were, and still are, unwilling to commit to a hot war directly with Russia. That's not changing anytime soon. Of course Ukraine wanted to join NATO so Russia would leave them alone, but there's no way NATO would allow that because of the threat of a hot war directly with Russia. Putin would love to grab more land, but he can't. The Russian military machine will take years to rebuild. The can will get kicked down the road and hopefully by that time better Russian leadership is in place, but that last part remains a mystery.

It is also true that Ukraine will likely build one of the largest army's in Europe, and will be better prepared for any future invasions. The next big arguments will be over future arms sales to Ukraine by the west. Just wait and see.

 

[Vol8188]

Not sure if you're ignorant or just being obtuse.

A neutral "opinion" for you:

Grok:

Which is more likely to happen quicker in a war - a cease fire or a permanent peach plan?

A ceasefire is more likely to happen quicker in a war than a permanent peace plan. Ceasefires are often temporary agreements to halt hostilities, driven by immediate needs like humanitarian aid, regrouping, or negotiations, and can be implemented rapidly—sometimes within hours or days—when both sides see mutual benefit or face external pressure. Historical examples, like the Korean Armistice Agreement in 1953, show ceasefires can be reached in weeks or months during active conflicts.

A permanent peace plan, however, requires addressing root causes, territorial disputes, political structures, and long-term reconciliation, which demands extensive negotiations, trust-building, and often international mediation. These can take years or decades, as seen in conflicts like Israel-Palestine, where multiple ceasefires have occurred, but a lasting peace plan remains elusive. Even in less complex cases, like the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 for Northern Ireland, peace plans took years of talks after initial ceasefires.

Ceasefires prioritize stopping violence quickly; permanent peace plans aim for lasting resolution, which inherently takes longer due to complexity and stakeholder alignment.

As I said, Trump went INTO the meeting demanding a ceasefire. Trump went OUT of the meeting wanting a permanent peace plan.

Game. Set. Match. Putin.

You claimed a cease fire would lead to a swift end to the war. That’s not how that works. They’ve had ceasefires before and the war is still ongoing.

Why do you see no ceasefire as a Putin win? He’s lost over 1 million soldiers. Over a quarter of a million this year alone

 

[appvol]

Now that is funny.

Check out "Melania's" signature.

Suspiciously looks EXACTLY like Donald's handwriting.

View attachment 764364

Maybe she used Bidens autopen

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You're not wrong, but the U.S. and the rest of NATO were, and still are, unwilling to commit to a hot war directly with Russia. That's not changing anytime soon. Of course Ukraine wanted to join NATO so Russia would leave them alone, but there's no way NATO would allow that because of the threat of a hot war directly with Russia. Putin would love to grab more land, but he can't. The Russian military machine will take years to rebuild. The can will get kicked down the road and hopefully by that time better Russian leadership is in place, but that last part remains a mystery.

It is also true that Ukraine will likely build one of the largest army's in Europe, and will be better prepared for any future invasions. The next big arguments will be over future arms sales to Ukraine by the west. Just wait and see.

On the one hand you argue Russia is too weak to fight a real war, then you argue NATO is scared of a hot war with Russia......

Why? If Russia is so depleted, they're not going to do well at all against NATO so they should take their lumps and move on or become more depleted.

You can't have it both ways:
Russia won't land grab because they're too depleted to fight more
AND
NATO won't take Ukraine because Russia would fight them.

It makes no sense. Ukraine joins NATO and Russia...... go ahead, what does Russia do since they're depleted?

 

[MontyPython]

You claimed a cease fire would lead to a swift end to the war. That’s not how that works. They’ve had ceasefires before and the war is still ongoing.

Why do you see no ceasefire as a Putin win? He’s lost over 1 million soldiers.

Mkay, so if Putin agrees to a ceasefire, you think the war wouldn't end immediately?!?

 

[Vol8188]

Mkay, so if Putin agrees to a ceasefire, you think the war wouldn't end immediately?!?

View attachment 764368

Hamas and Israel have agreed to ceasefires. Is the war over?

Russia and Ukraine have agreed to ceasefires.
Is the war over?

 

[norrislakevol]

On the one hand you argue Russia is too weak to fight a real war, then you argue NATO is scared of a hot war with Russia......

Why? If Russia is so depleted, they're not going to do well at all against NATO so they should take their lumps and move on or become more depleted.

You can't have it both ways:
Russia won't land grab because they're too depleted to fight more
AND
NATO won't take Ukraine because Russia would fight them.

It makes no sense. Ukraine joins NATO and Russia...... go ahead, what does Russia do since they're depleted?

We won't risk a hot war because of the nuclear threat, it's that simple.

 

[MontyPython]

Hamas and Israel have agreed to ceasefires. Is the war over?

Russia and Ukraine have agreed to ceasefires.
Is the war over?

You really should be more in the know if you're gonna post here.

Did Putin previously propose a temporary cease fire with Ukraine?

Yes, Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously proposed temporary ceasefires with Ukraine, though often with conditions that have been controversial or rejected. Below are key instances based on available information:

March 2025: Response to U.S.-Proposed 30-Day Ceasefire

Putin expressed openness to a U.S.-brokered 30-day ceasefire proposal, initially agreed upon by Ukraine, but attached conditions that were seen as problematic. He emphasized addressing the "root causes" of the conflict, such as NATO's presence in Eastern Europe, Ukraine's NATO membership aspirations, and territorial claims, including Crimea and four partially occupied Ukrainian regions (Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia). He raised concerns about how the ceasefire would be monitored, whether Ukraine would use the pause to rearm, and the status of Ukrainian forces in Russia’s Kursk region. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and analysts described these conditions as manipulative or tantamount to surrender, suggesting Putin was delaying or undermining the proposal.

April 2025: Three-Day Victory Day Ceasefire

Putin declared a unilateral three-day ceasefire from May 7 to May 10, 2025, to coincide with Russia’s Victory Day commemorations marking the 80th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany. The Kremlin described it as based on "humanitarian considerations." However, Ukraine dismissed it as a symbolic gesture, with Zelenskyy calling it manipulative and questioning why an immediate, longer ceasefire wasn’t proposed. Ukraine’s foreign minister pushed for a full 30-day truce instead, and both sides accused each other of violations during previous short truces, like an Easter ceasefire.

April 2025: Easter Truce

Putin had earlier announced a 30-hour unilateral Easter truce, which Ukraine criticized as insincere, noting violations by Russian forces. Zelenskyy emphasized that a full, unconditional ceasefire was possible only if Russia stopped attacks, highlighting ongoing distrust.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

We won't risk a hot war because of the nuclear threat, it's that simple.

You think Putin is going to use a nuke? That's absurd and you know it. A nuke threat over a land grab? C'mon.

Putin is a lowlife murdering bully but he's not suicidal.

 

[Vol8188]

You really should be more in the know if you're gonna post here.

Did Putin previously propose a temporary cease fire with Ukraine?

Yes, Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously proposed temporary ceasefires with Ukraine, though often with conditions that have been controversial or rejected. Below are key instances based on available information:

March 2025: Response to U.S.-Proposed 30-Day Ceasefire

Putin expressed openness to a U.S.-brokered 30-day ceasefire proposal, initially agreed upon by Ukraine, but attached conditions that were seen as problematic. He emphasized addressing the "root causes" of the conflict, such as NATO's presence in Eastern Europe, Ukraine's NATO membership aspirations, and territorial claims, including Crimea and four partially occupied Ukrainian regions (Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia). He raised concerns about how the ceasefire would be monitored, whether Ukraine would use the pause to rearm, and the status of Ukrainian forces in Russia’s Kursk region. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and analysts described these conditions as manipulative or tantamount to surrender, suggesting Putin was delaying or undermining the proposal.

April 2025: Three-Day Victory Day Ceasefire

Putin declared a unilateral three-day ceasefire from May 7 to May 10, 2025, to coincide with Russia’s Victory Day commemorations marking the 80th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany. The Kremlin described it as based on "humanitarian considerations." However, Ukraine dismissed it as a symbolic gesture, with Zelenskyy calling it manipulative and questioning why an immediate, longer ceasefire wasn’t proposed. Ukraine’s foreign minister pushed for a full 30-day truce instead, and both sides accused each other of violations during previous short truces, like an Easter ceasefire.

April 2025: Easter Truce

Putin had earlier announced a 30-hour unilateral Easter truce, which Ukraine criticized as insincere, noting violations by Russian forces. Zelenskyy emphasized that a full, unconditional ceasefire was possible only if Russia stopped attacks, highlighting ongoing distrust.

I’m glad you know how to copy and paste from AI. But you only seem to have proved what I stated. We’ve had ceasefires and yet, the war continues

 

[Majors]

You're going to hurt your shoulder with those constant pats on the back.

Seems another weekend and I’m in your head like the color red ( MAGA hats, red carpets) even when I’m asleep. Why would I pat myself on the back when I have you do it for me.

Your last pick in gym mentality is showing in your later years.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

We won't risk a hot war because of the nuclear threat, it's that simple.

What Putin IS going to try to do is disrupt the politics of the Eastern Bloc nations whether they are NATO or not to attempt to make it easier for him to claim "they don't need NATO, they need to come back to Russia."

He's full of crap but communists always are. He wants nothing anywhere near political choice in any of his satellites. He wants to run things like the USSR did with the fear of tanks in the streets if you oppose him. I was young but recall the tanks rolling into Prague when the Czechs stood up in 1968.

Putin cannot die soon enough, I'll agree with that.

 

[volbound1700]

You are actually arguing that Reagan beating Gorbie economically into a pulp, then the USSR falling is a bad thing for the world?

That's what you're arguing?

They lost. Russia couldn't hold the states, including Ukraine, that wanted their freedom to rule themselves. The world is better without the oppression Russia brought on its satellite nations. What is wrong with you folks? Reagan (I know it actually fell under Bush41) accomplished an enormous act of freedom for millions of people to give them self determination and you're willing to ignore that effort?

Perhaps you weren't alive for the fall of the Berlin Wall and those days but it was the end of decades of oppression and bullying.

I never thought I'd see folks on VN that aren't flat out socialists arguing that self determination is wrong or unnatural.

As for America, we are hopefully moving toward an era where state's rights can wrench some of the federal power that's been taken from the people. FINALLY people are realizing what the Founders wanted which is a weak federal government and strong state govts.

Self-determination is stupid. Our county can vote to leave USA and use that argument. Should it open the flood gates for all the people that want the USA to leave? What about Hawaii and all the lands the USA just took over? This isn't our problem. I think Ukraine and Russia are same people but Russia would be better off with the Ukrainian regime the Putin regime.

 

[volbound1700]

That's a rousing argument in defense of colonialism.
View attachment 764361

And wholly irrelevant after Ukraine's 1991 declaration of independence, which as formally recognized by the Russian Federation in the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, and further solidified in 1997.

Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Should we give Texas and California back to Mexico?

Edit: My point being that the map you posted looks a lot like the USA's expansion map of the 1800s as well.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Self-determination is stupid. Our county can vote to leave USA and use that argument. Should it open the flood gates for all the people that want the USA to leave? What about Hawaii and all the lands the USA just took over? This isn't our problem. I think Ukraine and Russia are same people but Russia would be better off with the Ukrainian regime the Putin regime.

Ukraine has sought self determination for years AND CURRENTLY HAS IT and overwhelmingly doesn't want to be part of Russia.

Putin actually invaded another country and you're arguing that it never was a country really?????

It was. This was settled in 1991 or so when the USSR was destroyed. Is Uzbekistan not a country? And all the other -stan countries? Is Moldova not a country?

Get a hold of yourself. Communism lost and these people got the chance to get out from under that sphere. Some stayed close to Russia and others moved more toward the West.

What part of free choice in govt bothers you about Ukraine?

 

[HeuperDrive]

Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.

So by this logic, should the British still control India and Pakistan? They were under the Union Jack for the same duration you’ve listed here! Rule, Britannia!

I’ve seen a lot of idiotic takes on this forum but this may take the cake lol. Jesus Christ.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Hamas and Israel have agreed to ceasefires. Is the war over?

Russia and Ukraine have agreed to ceasefires.
Is the war over?

Trump did this to himself. Again. He doubled down on ceasefire before the meeting and warned of repercussions if he didn’t get it. He didn’t get it, he changed his stated objective, and he’s said repercussions aren’t needed. That’s his own damn fault. Again. He should stop negotiating and making demands on Putin in the media because it always blows up on him. I watched Rubio this morning on This Week and he had to explain Trumps crawfishing while actually setting the scene for diplomacy. You don’t do it publicly in the media and when Radditz pressed on what concessions by Putin were discussed he said he wouldn’t air them on her show. Frankly I wish Trump would just let Rubio handle it.

 

[BeardedVol]

Should we give Texas and California back to Mexico?

Edit: My point being that the map you posted looks a lot like the USA's expansion map of the 1800s as well.

You're the one arguing that because Ukraine was at one time occupied by Russia, that they are forever part of Russia, not me.

By your 'logic' Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan are not real countries and can be invaded by Russia because they were all once part of Russia or the USSR.

Hell, by your 'logic', the UK has claim over the original 13 colonies of the United States.

The reality is that after the break up of the Soviet Union, none of those countries became part of the Russian Federation, and as such, Russia has no claim to any now.

 

[volbound1700]

You're the one arguing that because Ukraine was at one time occupied by Russia, that they are forever part of Russia, not me.

By your 'logic' Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan are not real countries and can be invaded by Russia because they were all once part of Russia or the USSR.

Hell, by your 'logic', the UK has claim over the original 13 colonies of the United States.

The reality is that after the break up of the Soviet Union, none of those countries became part of the Russian Federation, and as such, Russia has no claim to any now.

One-time... throughout a large part of modern history it was a part of Russia and they have common origins.

 

[BeardedVol]

Self-determination is stupid. Our county can vote to leave USA and use that argument. Should it open the flood gates for all the people that want the USA to leave? What about Hawaii and all the lands the USA just took over? This isn't our problem. I think Ukraine and Russia are same people but Russia would be better off with the Ukrainian regime the Putin regime.

This is a really, really dumb argument. Ukraine is not a state inside Russia. Even when it was part of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was it's own Soviet Socialist Republic, and not an oblast of Russia.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

You seem to be getting your beak wet with pocket pool in every one of your posts at the idea that someone supported Trump due to his position on X topic as some holier than thou arbiter of truth and/morality.

Nope, it was specifically about the Ukraine war and that particular posters admiration of Trump in this specific issue. I get you can support someone overall and still be disappointed at the same time. That rarely happens with the Trump crowd. His true proud supporters thinks he's highly competent in all these matters, when he reality he's an incompetent con man

You sure concentrate and make a great effort at casting aspersions

 

[HeuperDrive]

You're the one arguing that because Ukraine was at one time occupied by Russia, that they are forever part of Russia, not me.

By your 'logic' Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan are not real countries and can be invaded by Russia because they were all once part of Russia or the USSR.

Hell, by your 'logic', the UK has claim over the original 13 colonies of the United States.

The reality is that after the break up of the Soviet Union, none of those countries became part of the Russian Federation, and as such, Russia has no claim to any now.

Not necessarily. Some of the Thirteen Colonies were originally under the French before the British took it. So if you’re from upstate New York, you’d better brush up on your French, buddy, cause France will soon be coming to take what’s theirs!

 

[BeardedVol]

One-time... throughout a large part of modern history it was a part of Russia and they have common origins.

Which is totally irrelevant to the reality that the Ukrainian SSR voted to to leave the USSR in 1991.

1991 Ukrainian sovereignty referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And that independence and sovereignty was subsequently recognized and affirmed by the Russian Federation in 1994, and 1997.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

One-time... throughout a large part of modern history it was a part of Russia and they have common origins.

My man, throughout most of history the common origins where my butt is parked is the Creek Nation, I believe.

What is wrong with you?

 

[HeuperDrive]

One-time... throughout a large part of modern history it was a part of Russia and they have common origins.

So are the Balkans rightful Turkish land? They were controlled by the Ottomans for centuries.

Is Taiwan part of China? They were under Beijing’s control until 1949. May as well just lay down their guns and let the CCP roll over em.

Is Ireland part of the UK? The English controlled Ireland for almost a millennium. Far longer than the Ruskies controlled Ukraine.

Is Brazil part of Portugal? Is Cuba part of Spain? Hell, is Finland part of Russia?

No, they all have self determination and aren’t beholden to somebody else just because of historical claims. Same with Ukraine and every other post Soviet state.