War in Ukraine

#88,501
#88,501
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Which is EXACTLY why Ukraine wanted to join and Putin said that "threatened" Russia.

I can't believe anyone in the US thinks Putin should get away with that crap. Where's ANY threat from Ukraine to Russia?
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That's correct. Putin wanted Ukraine. He didn't get it all, nor will he. Now he is significantly weakened. Hope it was worth it, the equipment losses alone will take over 10 years to recover.
 
#88,502
#88,502
norrislakevol said:
That's correct. Putin wanted Ukraine. He didn't get it all, nor will he. Now he is significantly weakened. Hope it was worth it, the equipment losses alone will take over 10 years to recover.
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So you think Putin will just quit land grabbing now? Like he did after Obama let him walk into Crimea........ only he didn't.

The ONLY reason it cost Russia militarily is because we gave them the weapons. Without US/NATO support, what makes you think Ukraine can stop Russia now or ever?

That's the whole point of joining NATO, so Russia can't just bully them.
 
#88,503
#88,503
Orange. said:
Bearded doesn't think anything. He is a petty political hack who is on some feeds that tell him what pig slop of the day to repeat as many times as possible. Every thread. Prolly on a payroll. Sort of one those paid protestors. Or a streetwalker.
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Bearded eats cake.
 
#88,504
#88,504
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
That's exactly why Ukraine wanted to join NATO. They knew Putin was going to land grab at some point and he would actually kill civilians to keep them from joining.

Why should the world let this kind of thing happen? Should we be able to start picking off little Central American countries and making them US satellites because we did in the past with the CIA and we can do it again? Shall we invade Cuba? Successfully this time?

We could but we shouldn't. Putin shouldn't either. Bully nations need to be slapped back so they don't get the idea that rolling tanks and launching missiles is how to get things done.
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Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.
 
#88,505
#88,505
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
So you think Putin will just quit land grabbing now? Like he did after Obama let him walk into Crimea........ only he didn't.

The ONLY reason it cost Russia militarily is because we gave them the weapons. Without US/NATO support, what makes you think Ukraine can stop Russia now or ever?

That's the whole point of joining NATO, so Russia can't just bully them.
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This can be used both ways though. Let's say Florida votes to leave the USA and then stays independent for 15 years and the we invade them to get them back. Should world stop us? We want to defend our territorial integrity. Do you defend the Confederacy and it's right to leave?
 
#88,507
#88,507
volbound1700 said:
Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.
Click to expand...

What a rube.

5th graders understand geography, so clearly you're just doing your duty carrying water for war criminal Putin.
 
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#88,508
#88,508
volbound1700 said:
This can be used both ways though. Let's say Florida votes to leave the USA and then stays independent for 15 years and the we invade them to get them back. Should world stop us? We want to defend our territorial integrity. Do you defend the Confederacy and it's right to leave?
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Florida? No problem. Bon Voyage!!!

Mejor practica hablar español.
 
#88,511
#88,511
volbound1700 said:
This can be used both ways though. Let's say Florida votes to leave the USA and then stays independent for 15 years and the we invade them to get them back. Should world stop us? We want to defend our territorial integrity. Do you defend the Confederacy and it's right to leave?
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You are actually arguing that Reagan beating Gorbie economically into a pulp, then the USSR falling is a bad thing for the world?

That's what you're arguing?

They lost. Russia couldn't hold the states, including Ukraine, that wanted their freedom to rule themselves. The world is better without the oppression Russia brought on its satellite nations. What is wrong with you folks? Reagan (I know it actually fell under Bush41) accomplished an enormous act of freedom for millions of people to give them self determination and you're willing to ignore that effort?

Perhaps you weren't alive for the fall of the Berlin Wall and those days but it was the end of decades of oppression and bullying.

I never thought I'd see folks on VN that aren't flat out socialists arguing that self determination is wrong or unnatural.

As for America, we are hopefully moving toward an era where state's rights can wrench some of the federal power that's been taken from the people. FINALLY people are realizing what the Founders wanted which is a weak federal government and strong state govts.
 
#88,512
#88,512
Vol8188 said:
Moving from a ceasefire to a permanent peace agreement isn’t a significant shift. It seems he’s still seeking the same goal.
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It's a huge shift.

Had Putin agreed to the ceasefire that Trump DEMANDED, then the war would be ending within a short, pre-determined timeframe.

With Trump switching to Putin's preferred "permanent peach agreement", the war continues with no end in sight.

Russian goals ACCOMPLISHED.

The legend of TACO lives on!

p-91342141-TACO-trump-meme-Trump-Always-Chickens-Out (1).jpg
 
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#88,513
#88,513
volbound1700 said:
Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.
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Most of America was owned by Native Americans during some of that period. Shall we give it back?
 
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#88,514
#88,514
MontyPython said:
No. Not at all.

Had Putin agreed to the ceasefire that Trump DEMANDED, then the war would be ending within a short determined timeframe.

With Trump switching to Putin's preferred "permanent peach agreement", the war continues with no end in sight.

Russian goals ACCOMPLISHED.

The legend of TACO lives on!

View attachment 764360
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A ceasefire doesn’t mean an end is near. They’ve had ceasefires in this war previously. Yet the war continues.
 
#88,517
#88,517
BernardKingGOAT said:
So just because I voted for Haley means I don't hope for peace? That's a pathetic reach, even for you

SMH
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But but but....I thought we were supposed to vote for someone who we agreed with on everything or they agreed with us on everything.....or did you just get caught being falsely sanctimonious?
 
#88,518
#88,518
volbound1700 said:
Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.
Click to expand...

That's a rousing argument in defense of colonialism.
Russian-expansion-Asia.jpg

And wholly irrelevant after Ukraine's 1991 declaration of independence, which as formally recognized by the Russian Federation in the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, and further solidified in 1997.
en.wikipedia.org

Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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#88,519
#88,519
MontyPython said:
It's a huge shift.

Had Putin agreed to the ceasefire that Trump DEMANDED, then the war would be ending within a short, pre-determined timeframe.

With Trump switching to Putin's preferred "permanent peach agreement", the war continues with no end in sight.

Russian goals ACCOMPLISHED.

The legend of TACO lives on!

View attachment 764360
Click to expand...
Speaking of Tacos we know what Jill thought.

 
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#88,520
#88,520
Vol8188 said:
A ceasefire doesn’t mean an end is near. They’ve had ceasefires in this war previously. Yet the war continues.
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Not sure if you're ignorant or just being obtuse.

A neutral "opinion" for you:

Grok:

Which is more likely to happen quicker in a war - a cease fire or a permanent peach plan?

A ceasefire is more likely to happen quicker in a war than a permanent peace plan. Ceasefires are often temporary agreements to halt hostilities, driven by immediate needs like humanitarian aid, regrouping, or negotiations, and can be implemented rapidly—sometimes within hours or days—when both sides see mutual benefit or face external pressure. Historical examples, like the Korean Armistice Agreement in 1953, show ceasefires can be reached in weeks or months during active conflicts.

A permanent peace plan, however, requires addressing root causes, territorial disputes, political structures, and long-term reconciliation, which demands extensive negotiations, trust-building, and often international mediation. These can take years or decades, as seen in conflicts like Israel-Palestine, where multiple ceasefires have occurred, but a lasting peace plan remains elusive. Even in less complex cases, like the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 for Northern Ireland, peace plans took years of talks after initial ceasefires.

Ceasefires prioritize stopping violence quickly; permanent peace plans aim for lasting resolution, which inherently takes longer due to complexity and stakeholder alignment.

As I said, Trump went INTO the meeting demanding a ceasefire. Trump went OUT of the meeting wanting a permanent peace plan.

Game. Set. Match. Putin.
 
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#88,523
#88,523
volbound1700 said:
Because Ukraine was never a nation and was part of Russia since 1600s perperhaps. Kiev settlers literally founded Moscow. To me, it is a Russian. Civil War.

Want proof?


Look at maps of Russia during WW2, WW1, Victorian era, Napoleon Wars, Seven Years War, etc. Ukraine was always part of Russia.
Click to expand...
I had to look it up but after the Tzar fell to the Bolshiveks, Ukraine TRIED to form a govt and did, only to be put down by the emerging communists. Ukraine has sought self determination for at least a century.
 
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#88,525
#88,525
BernardKingGOAT said:
I've never stated that. Are you sure you know the definition of "sanctimonious"?
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You seem to be getting your beak wet with pocket pool in every one of your posts at the idea that someone supported Trump due to his position on X topic as some holier than thou arbiter of truth and/morality.
 
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