Israel vs Palestinians II

[n_huffhines]

 

[hog88]

This is bigoted generalization. You are making a blanket statement about “they use women and children as human shields.” That takes the actions of militant groups in conflicts (like Hamas or ISIS) and projects them onto all Muslims, which is both inaccurate and prejudiced.

Saying you don’t have hostility towards Muslims, doesn’t negate a discriminatory statement. This is the equivalent of saying “no offense” right before you offend someone.

As a community the Muslims need to work on their image.

 

[MAD]

Imagine if these were conversations by Drs. about Muslims being part of ISIS, al-Qaeda, violence, supporting female genital mutilation, the "Jizyah" system for Christians & nonbelievers under Sharia. Muslim & Arab communities constantly scream about Islamophobia & racism but some from these same communities act oblivious when they are the perpetrators of unspeakable bigotry, hatred, antisemitism, and vile rhetoric that they spew on a regular basis, with little to no push back from the society and professional class around them.

The double standards are despicable and the proliferation of Jew-hatred under the guise of "anti-Zionism" have reached previously unimaginable levels that are comparable to what Muslims and Arabs had to deal with following the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks. It's time to reject double standards; it's time to stop using Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism as cover and justification for the most vile and disgusting forms of hatred, incitement, and bigotry against an entire people simply because of who they are.

 

[Persian Vol]

As a community the Muslims need to work on their image.

You need to work on your ignorance.

 

[MAD]

Israel has leftist idiots too.

Israelis loudly expressing a difference of opinion about politics? Happens here too.

They believe that Bibi is the problem just like Trump here in the states.

They want an unconditional cease fire, even if that means leaving Hamas in power.

 

[volsforever27]

You need to work on your ignorance.

You need to find better examples than CAIR. They support terrorists and have been criticized for a while by the American government.

But I know, their words were “misconstrued”.

 

[MAD]

You need to work on your ignorance.

Maybe you need to work on your ignorance.

Islamophobia
While the term was first used in 1922, it only became a significant part of our vocabulary in the 1990s.

The term was first popularized by the Muslim Brotherhood: an Islamist organization that seeks to create a state that is governed by Islamic law (Shari’ah). They publicized the term as an attempt to criminalize any criticism of their religious and political beliefs by implicitly comparing it to antisemitism.

This deceptive “symmetry” with antisemitism allowed them to gain moral advantages from the resulting victimhood status, and even turn them against Israel and Zionism.

The Western wing of the Muslim Brotherhood is still actively using this term to accuse anyone who criticizes their organizations, members, or aims.

The International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT) decided to “emulate the homosexual activists who used the term ‘homophobia’ to silence critics.” That the IIIT and Muslim Brotherhood are allied was later proven by FBI reports. They revealed that several of the IIIT founders and directors were Brotherhood members. Hence the term ‘Islamophobia’ was born.

It is definitely fair to say that forms of prejudice, bias, and discrimination against Muslims exist in many countries around the world. Much of this is certainly centralised in Western nations, but not exclusively, because in many Islamic countries, there is also discrimination between Muslims and non-Muslims, and among Muslims themselves. For example, the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party of India and many of its adherents have been discriminating against Muslims since the late 1990s, and continue to do so today. Also, the mutual opposition between Sunni and Shia Muslims has been causing (violent) conflicts for centuries, even though they have known many periods of peace.

While understanding the origins of the phrase is very instructive, it does not change the conceptual problems with the term itself. The main problem is that it fails to distinguish between prejudice and discrimination against Muslims as people, prejudice against Islam, and informed criticism of Islam or Islamism as a set of ideas and practices. Freedom of speech and thought allows anyone to criticise an ideology, but not to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion. A second problem is that ‘Islamophobia’ is often defined as a form of racism directed toward Muslims. The issue here is that Muslims are not a racial group, and that people of all ethnicities can be Muslims. A third problem, is that the suffix ‘phobia’ implies a delusional or irrational fear that is analogous to a mental illness.

Attacking the person in this way, rather than their argument, is a classic ‘ad hominem’ (attacking the person) fallacy. A fourth problem is that we rarely use these phobia terms to protect any other religion. We practically never describe atheists who make jokes about Christianity as ‘Christophobics,’ or describe critics of mindfulnessmeditation as ‘Buddhophobics.’ Both terms have almost never been searched on Google in the past 15 years. One potential solution to these conceptual problems, is to describe the problem as “bias against Muslims,” which acknowledges the existence of real bias against people, while distinguishing it from informed criticism of an ideology.

 

[MAD]

You need to find better examples than CAIR. They support terrorists and have been criticized for a while by the American government.

But I know, their words were “misconstrued”.

 

[NCFisher]

Hind Rajab
At least several posters seem to assert this is s clear case of murder, appealing to authority of a group called Forensic Architecture. One posted to the effect of "shooting a girl 300 times" while another referred to a 'monitoring' group terming it a "planned executions". Other posters seem inclined towards declaring it an Israeli war crime without going quite that far. On the other side, it seems to range from near complete dismissal, to guarded skepticism. Without calling out anyone, an objective look is warranted as Hind Rajab has become a cause celebre and propaganda chess piece representative of the genocide claims at large.

Who is Forensic Architecture and how did they come to be involved? They're a Goldsmiths University of London-based forensic agency who is headed by founding member Eyal Weizman, a British Israeli. They were commissioned by Al Jazeera to investigate, or produce a product depending upon your viewpoint. They have a persistent collaborative relationship with Al-Jazeera. I'd categorize them as a group expressing their activism through their spatial forensic services.

Forensic Architecture has repeatedly, unequivocally characterized the conflict as genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crime, apartheid throughout the website; FA has a staked position when it comes to the conflict and there is no deflecting that. Looking into some of the management, donors, and advisories, my impression of that of devoted left of center ideologues.

Does that mean the killing of the Hind Rajab party and the ambulance medics that day were not murder? No; the officer in charge may have simply had an axe to grind and ordered the killings, knowing these were just civilians. I could see that. After all, seems Israel initially said they had no forces there that day/time and retracted later. If Israel has publicly followed up further, I didn't find it.

If it wasn't rogue IDF actors - and there is no evidence Israel has a "kill 'em if you want to, soldier" policy - what else could have happened?

If it was a targeted - "planned execution" - as Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor claimed, why were they targeted? It probably wasn't just to whack a 7-y.o. girl, so who were the members of the party? But then there's the attack on the arriving ambulance which complicates that explanation.
Was this a restricted zone, heavily flagged/posted for no vehicular travel due to an immediate security concern? Or did someone just F-up, or go nuts behind the controls in that tank? I could see that.

Did Hamas do it?

No one outside of IDF knows. Categorically calling this murder and reason to condemn Israel, is pointless speculation, as is casually explaining it away.
Why be part of the propagandizing, in either event? Just recognize there's some shite we don't know and not try to count coup with it.

 

[MAD]

Hind Rajab
At least several posters seem to assert this is s clear case of murder, appealing to authority of a group called Forensic Architecture. One posted to the effect of "shooting a girl 300 times" while another referred to a 'monitoring' group terming it a "planned executions". Other posters seem inclined towards declaring it an Israeli war crime without going quite that far. On the other side, it seems to range from near complete dismissal, to guarded skepticism. Without calling out anyone, an objective look is warranted as Hind Rajab has become a cause celebre and propaganda chess piece representative of the genocide claims at large.

Who is Forensic Architecture and how did they come to be involved? They're a Goldsmiths University of London-based forensic agency who is headed by founding member Eyal Weizman, a British Israeli. They were commissioned by Al Jazeera to investigate, or produce a product depending upon your viewpoint. They have a persistent collaborative relationship with Al-Jazeera. I'd categorize them as a group expressing their activism through their spatial forensic services.

Forensic Architecture has repeatedly, unequivocally characterized the conflict as genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crime, apartheid throughout the website; FA has a staked position when it comes to the conflict and there is no deflecting that. Looking into some of the management, donors, and advisories, my impression of that of devoted left of center ideologues.

Does that mean the killing of the Hind Rajab party and the ambulance medics that day were not murder? No; the officer in charge may have simply had an axe to grind and ordered the killings, knowing these were just civilians. I could see that. After all, seems Israel initially said they had no forces there that day/time and retracted later. If Israel has publicly followed up further, I didn't find it.

If it wasn't rogue IDF actors - and there is no evidence Israel has a "kill 'em if you want to, soldier" policy - what else could have happened?

If it was a targeted - "planned execution" - as Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor claimed, why were they targeted? It probably wasn't just to whack a 7-y.o. girl, so who were the members of the party? But then there's the attack on the arriving ambulance which complicates that explanation.
Was this a restricted zone, heavily flagged/posted for no vehicular travel due to an immediate security concern? Or did someone just F-up, or go nuts behind the controls in that tank? I could see that.

Did Hamas do it?

No one outside of IDF knows. Categorically calling this murder and reason to condemn Israel, is pointless speculation, as is casually explaining it away.
Why be part of the propagandizing, in either event? Just recognize there's some shite we don't know and not try to count coup with it.

Great write up, very educational and enjoyed reading.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Saying “Muslims don’t condemn terrorism” is just false. Groups like CAIR, ISNA, and countless imams around the world regularly denounce extremist attacks, the problem is those statements don’t get much media attention. This is a common misconception.

And holding 1.9 billion people responsible for the actions of a fringe is a double standard. We shouldn’t demand that all Christians answer for the KKK, or all Jews for extremist settlers. The same logic applies to Islam.

Your mocking of “Allah Akbar” is not only inaccurate (it just means “God is great” in daily prayer), but it turns a normal expression of faith into a caricature of violence.

Blaming the whole faith instead of the extremists is exactly the kind of generalization that fuels prejudice.

That’s not the general consensus.
It’s the serious lack of denouncing from the Muslim leaders that fuels prejudice
And I’m not a Christian. I practice a form of Judaism. But the Protestant Christians get this right. They denounced the **** out of anyone that acts like a shitbag.
Maybe you can link all these examples of the leaders going on TV to lead the charge on denouncing terrorism.
That might help change the appearance.
Start with Chattanooga. Good luck because all you’re going to find is “no comment “

Then you can work on Catholics denouncing pedos instead of hiding them.

 

[Orangeslice13]

As a community the Muslims need to work on their image.

It really is that simple.
Maybe the moderate Muslims are afraid of their extremist brothers. And that’s why they stay silent

 

[Orangeslice13]

Me waiting on the leaders of their community to denounce terrorist

 

[hog88]

You need to work on your ignorance.

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

 

[hog88]

It really is that simple.
Maybe the moderate Muslims are afraid of their extremist brothers. And that’s why they stay silent

Any religion that condones beating a woman simply because she isn’t covered up enough is evil. Any man that requires his woman to wear a burka isn’t a man.

 

[Smokey123]

Hind Rajab
At least several posters seem to assert this is s clear case of murder, appealing to authority of a group called Forensic Architecture. One posted to the effect of "shooting a girl 300 times" while another referred to a 'monitoring' group terming it a "planned executions". Other posters seem inclined towards declaring it an Israeli war crime without going quite that far. On the other side, it seems to range from near complete dismissal, to guarded skepticism. Without calling out anyone, an objective look is warranted as Hind Rajab has become a cause celebre and propaganda chess piece representative of the genocide claims at large.

Who is Forensic Architecture and how did they come to be involved? They're a Goldsmiths University of London-based forensic agency who is headed by founding member Eyal Weizman, a British Israeli. They were commissioned by Al Jazeera to investigate, or produce a product depending upon your viewpoint. They have a persistent collaborative relationship with Al-Jazeera. I'd categorize them as a group expressing their activism through their spatial forensic services.

Forensic Architecture has repeatedly, unequivocally characterized the conflict as genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crime, apartheid throughout the website; FA has a staked position when it comes to the conflict and there is no deflecting that. Looking into some of the management, donors, and advisories, my impression of that of devoted left of center ideologues.

Does that mean the killing of the Hind Rajab party and the ambulance medics that day were not murder? No; the officer in charge may have simply had an axe to grind and ordered the killings, knowing these were just civilians. I could see that. After all, seems Israel initially said they had no forces there that day/time and retracted later. If Israel has publicly followed up further, I didn't find it.

If it wasn't rogue IDF actors - and there is no evidence Israel has a "kill 'em if you want to, soldier" policy - what else could have happened?

If it was a targeted - "planned execution" - as Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor claimed, why were they targeted? It probably wasn't just to whack a 7-y.o. girl, so who were the members of the party? But then there's the attack on the arriving ambulance which complicates that explanation.
Was this a restricted zone, heavily flagged/posted for no vehicular travel due to an immediate security concern? Or did someone just F-up, or go nuts behind the controls in that tank? I could see that.

Did Hamas do it?

No one outside of IDF knows. Categorically calling this murder and reason to condemn Israel, is pointless speculation, as is casually explaining it away.
Why be part of the propagandizing, in either event? Just recognize there's some shite we don't know and not try to count coup with it.

FA wasn’t the only one to do an investigation. So did the WaPo. You don’t think if there was evidence of Hamas doing it the IDF wouldn’t say that like they always have?

Israel lied about having tanks in the area, US ammunition found, the head of coordination for Cogat said the paramedics was given a recovery route

It doesn’t even get recognized as a possibility of a rogue actor just lies and propaganda. Just like when Israel fires the commander responsible for the killing of paramedics the response on here is “how can you even blame the soldiers”

This thread has become a literal cancer full of nothing but propaganda and hypocrisy

 

[hog88]

Me waiting on the leaders of their community to denounce terrorist View attachment 764142

It’s either because they’re balles pussies or the religion endorses it

 

[Persian Vol]

That’s not the general consensus.
It’s the serious lack of denouncing from the Muslim leaders that fuels prejudice
And I’m not a Christian. I practice a form of Judaism. But the Protestant Christians get this right. They denounced the **** out of anyone that acts like a shitbag.
Maybe you can link all these examples of the leaders going on TV to lead the charge on denouncing terrorism.
That might help change the appearance.
Start with Chattanooga. Good luck because all you’re going to find is “no comment “

Then you can work on Catholics denouncing pedos instead of hiding them.

Nashville Muslims Condemn Chattanooga Shooting

NASHVILLE, Tenn – News of the shooting in Chattanooga that left four U.S. Marines dead, has particularly impacted the Nashville Islamic community, and local leaders have been speaking out against the violence.Friday morning was filled with celebrations for Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of Ramadan

www.newschannel5.com

Baton Rouge Islamic leaders condemn attacks in Chattanooga

Leaders of the Islamic community of Baton Rouge strongly condemned Thursday's attacks in Chattanooga that left four Marines dead.

www.wafb.com

Local Muslim leader condemns Chattanooga shooting

Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles, fears Thursday's mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee will reflect badly on the Muslim community.

abc7.com

 

[OrangeTsar]

Large gathering of Israeli vets in protest of their government.

"We never went out against any war until now."

I am sure they were paid well

 

[Persian Vol]

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

Saying ‘stereotypes exist for a reason’ ignores that they’re usually distortions born out of bias, not reality. They persist because people repeat them, not because they’re accurate reflections of individuals.

Hence @Orangeslice13 and your fixation on Muslim leadership not condemning terrorist attacks, despite there being evidence.

 

[Smokey123]

I am sure they were paid well

There’s been a group of IDF vets that have outspokenly opposed what has been going on for at least 20 years. This and the protests against Bibi are far from new

 

[NCFisher]

FA wasn’t the only one to do an investigation. So did the WaPo. You don’t think if there was evidence of Hamas doing it the IDF wouldn’t say that like they always have?

Israel lied about having tanks in the area, US ammunition found, the head of coordination for Cogat said the paramedics was given a recovery route

It doesn’t even get recognized as a possibility of a rogue actor just lies and propaganda. Just like when Israel fires the commander responsible for the killing of paramedics the response on here is “how can you even blame the soldiers”

This thread has become a literal cancer full of nothing but propaganda and hypocrisy

My post practically 95% points to an Israeli act, with Hamas thrown in as an outlying comment, so I'll assume your "nothing but propaganda and hypocrisy" is directed to the thread at large.

I wouldn't spend your $ to buy WaPo, but will assume it, too, concludes IDF was the attacker. Which still begs the questions of why and under what circumstance.

Unless you're proposing this is standard IDF procedure, you're asking the same two questions.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Nashville Muslims Condemn Chattanooga Shooting

NASHVILLE, Tenn – News of the shooting in Chattanooga that left four U.S. Marines dead, has particularly impacted the Nashville Islamic community, and local leaders have been speaking out against the violence.Friday morning was filled with celebrations for Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of Ramadan

www.newschannel5.com

Baton Rouge Islamic leaders condemn attacks in Chattanooga

Leaders of the Islamic community of Baton Rouge strongly condemned Thursday's attacks in Chattanooga that left four Marines dead.

www.wafb.com

Local Muslim leader condemns Chattanooga shooting

Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles, fears Thursday's mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee will reflect badly on the Muslim community.

abc7.com

So nothing in Chattanooga from the Chattanooga leadership of Islam.
Well they did say “no comment “.

But I was completely unaware anyone said anything.
So 3 nation wide out it the millions is better than nothing…..I guess. Did anyone go on camera the day of? I mean other than the Chattanooga leadership hiding their faces and saying “no comment “.


Now let’s talk about when Hillary Clinton blamed a Stupid MFer in Texas , who burned the Koran, for Muslim extremism. The local Baptist Pastor of the mega church was the first on the news locally condemning the book burning as hateful. But let’s set that aside for a second. HRC tried to say that simply burning a book, which is stupidity, would cause the Muslim world to riot and pretty much everyone believed her.
That is a perception problem.

I’m glad you found someone who spoke out. Now find 100s more and maybe perception will change.

 

[YankeeVol]

You need to work on your ignorance.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Saying ‘stereotypes exist for a reason’ ignores that they’re usually distortions born out of bias, not reality. They persist because people repeat them, not because they’re accurate reflections of individuals.

Hence @Orangeslice13 and your fixation on Muslim leadership not condemning terrorist attacks, despite there being evidence.

Lol
Fixation.
I really don’t give a **** beyond this conversation.
If you knew anything about me you’d know that I’m concerned with my standing before what I believe G-d to be. I have no say or impact on your standing and judgment so I’m going to leave you to worry about you.

That’s another thing that separates me from Christian’s and Muslims. It doesn’t bother me at all if you think G-d is different than what I do.