Israel vs Palestinians II

You said yassin was “mostly peaceful” in a comment that had nothing to do with him. Sorry you hold a man who advocated for the suicide bombings of Israelis in higher regards than I do
I connected the comment to Yassin AND his charity network, the 1973 timeline onward when Israel perceived them as a counter to Fatah/PLO and the M.Brotherhood leadership pivot from political violence and being allowed back in Egypt, and noted Yassin/his network Mujama's 1980s radicalization and reforming into Hamas. That's two things being true about the same man and the same organization, at different points in time.

I'm going to chalk it up as a misunderstanding and see if we have a different tone next time around.
 
Start with intentional acts of murder and crimes against humanity. Can you condemn that?
So you believe those are the policies of the state of Israel?
If that is your belief, then yes indeed you SHOULD condemn such.
I however do not believe that premise. I am sure that individual soldiers have crossed a line sometimes (as happens in every conflict) but I do not believe that such incidents reflect Israeli policy.
Most of the examples cited by opponents of Israel are either wholly staged or are reported giving only the Hamas interpretation.
Have you ever seen the film Rashamon?
 
Just try, try to figure out a reason to condemn Israel. Unless you think Israel truly has done nothing wrong?
I believe individual soldiers may have done things that are wrong but I do not believe they are indicative of Israeli policies.
I am sure some America GIs in WWII committed crimes; but that doesn’t justify condemning the American war effort.
 
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So you believe those are the policies of the state of Israel?
If that is your belief, then yes indeed you SHOULD condemn such.
I however do not believe that premise. I am sure that individual soldiers have crossed a line sometimes (as happens in every conflict) but I do not believe that such incidents reflect Israeli policy.
Most of the examples cited by opponents of Israel are either wholly staged or are reported giving only the Hamas interpretation.
Have you ever seen the film Rashamon?
Word salad. If IDF soldiers have crossed a line can you condemn those soldiers? Of course not. Can you condemn those who killed Hind Rajab? I will wait
 
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I don't know that anyone celebrates civilian casualties regardless of their culpability.

Israel is not above valid criticism for avoidable casualties, but it's rather like the sweltering hate for Trump; they justify any smear, any abrogation of his rights because...well, Hitler...or something. Most criticisms of Israel are a direct result of them 1.) being Jews and 2.) setting such a high standard of warfare conduct for themselves that are historically singular, but mostly 3.) a propagandized history of the region that afflicts perhaps 95% of the people who authoritatively talk about it. It is literally more a propaganda war for longterm survival than an armed conflict.

Feed and supply the populace who elected the government who has repeatedly waged attacks, knowing you're directly sustaining that enemy military? Taking extraordinary measures to warn and avoid civilians whom that enemy government shields themselves with? Who does that and with such a tiny population in a tiny country surrounded by enemy?

I can find some criticisms with the question of settlements for example, but these are lands captured from enemy combatants and held strategically by Israel now. Again, Israel has set a higher bar for themselves than history or right to defense demands - don't gamble land you can't afford to lose.
I can't find criticism for this campaign.
There is room for criticism in every campaign. Many of the criticisms of Israel are because they are Jews and the controversial way in which their state was created. But many criticisms of Israel are due to Israel's handling and prosecution of conflict, particularly against the Palestinian people. Some of it warranted and some of it not.

But again we've danced around what should be a really simple condemnation of wrong doing, even if the extent is in question.
 
Word salad. If IDF soldiers have crossed a line can you condemn those soldiers? Of course not. Can you condemn those who killed Hind Rajab? I will wait
I will look at the example you mention as I am unfamiliar with the name. And yes, if I see objective evidence of a crime, I will indeed condemn it.
If there was a crime there, do you believe Israel should respond by stopping the war? What action do you recommend? What do you feel would “make things right”?
 
I will look at the example you mention as I am unfamiliar with the name. And yes, if I see objective evidence of a crime, I will indeed condemn it.
If there was a crime there, do you believe Israel should respond by stopping the war? What action do you recommend? What do you feel would “make things right”?
Israel has a habit of arresting the wrongdoers from their side.
Their enemies….not so much.
That’s the actual wrongdoers. Not the BS posted here
 
I believe individual soldiers may have done things that are wrong but I do not believe they are indicative of Israeli policies.
I am sure some America GIs in WWII committed crimes; but that doesn’t justify condemning the American war effort.

Over 20,000 children have been massacred. Do you truly believe this was just an inevitable part of war? And that no measures could have been taken to limit total devastation? What are your thoughts on the rafah paramedic massacre?
 
Israel has a habit of arresting the wrongdoers from their side.
Their enemies….not so much.
That’s the actual wrongdoers. Not the BS posted here
Israel claimed that there were not any troops present in the neighborhood and denied carrying out the attack. However, this was refuted by The Washington Post and Sky News's investigations relying on satellite imagery and visual evidence, which concluded that a number of Israeli tanks were indeed present and one had likely fired 335 rounds on the car that Rajab and her family had been in, with tank operators being able to see that the car had civilians including children in it. The Forensic Architecture investigation also concluded that an Israeli tank had also likely attacked the ambulance that came for Rajab.
 
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Over 20,000 children have been massacred. Do you truly believe this was just an inevitable part of war? And that no measures could have been taken to limit total devastation? What are your thoughts on the rafah paramedic massacre?
It would be remiss of me to respond without pointing out that I reject the initial premise of your question. I do not accept the figure of 20,000 children “massacred” as it comes from hardly objective sources. And even if there HAD BEEN 20,000 children killed, is it your contention that this had been done with deliberate knowledge and intent?
If you truly believe that, then of course you should condemn such. And if anyone convinces me of that fact, then I will willfully join you in condemnation
 
It would be remiss of me to respond without pointing out that I reject the initial premise of your question. I do not accept the figure of 20,000 children “massacred” as it comes from hardly objective sources. And even if there HAD BEEN 20,000 children killed, is it your contention that this had been done with deliberate knowledge and intent?
If you truly believe that, then of course you should condemn such. And if anyone convinces me of that fact, then I will willfully join you in condemnation

What is preventing you from believing it? You do not think that nearly 20,000 children have died?
 
It would be remiss of me to respond without pointing out that I reject the initial premise of your question. I do not accept the figure of 20,000 children “massacred” as it comes from hardly objective sources. And even if there HAD BEEN 20,000 children killed, is it your contention that this had been done with deliberate knowledge and intent?
If you truly believe that, then of course you should condemn such. And if anyone convinces me of that fact, then I will willfully join you in condemnation
I do agree Hamas ministry of health isn’t reliable. last march Israel’s estimate was 30k (16 civilians and 14 combatants) which was only 5k lower than Hamas’ numbers. I don’t think Israel has released more estimates but if the reporting differences stayed the same they’d be at around 55k deaths and around 30k civilians. There’s been a couple independent studies that have said the numbers reported are likely under-reported

In a very highly dense area, with half the population under 18 where Hamas uses children as shields, tunnels under civilian housing, over 90% of structures damaged by rockets I’m not sure how there wouldn’t be a high number of casualties. Unless you think Israel is doing something that has never been done before
 
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What kind of man hides behind women and children?

Y’all owe Israel an apology.



In Sweden crowds chanting for martyrdom. Children are dressed as suicide bombers, holding flags, phrases like "Hamas is a glorious name for dying a martyr." It exposes radical Islamist grooming of youth.
 
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