Israel vs Palestinians II

#277
#277
It pretty much says it all that the priority for one side is dying, starving, mutilated children, and the other side is freaking out about Jewish-Americans who are off the Zionist "plantation," to borrow a buzzword from the right.
 
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#278
#278
n_huffhines said:
It pretty much says it all that the priority for one side is dying, starving, mutilated children, and the other side is freaking out about Jewish-Americans who are off the Zionist "plantation," to borrow a buzzword from the right.
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There are many sides. And the demonization of Jewish people because they want a homeland where it exists is in itself a form of bigotry, if not racism.

There are people who support Israel's right to exist (Zionism in this context) who do not support this conflict.
 
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#279
#279
n_huffhines said:
It pretty much says it all that the priority for one side is dying, starving, mutilated children, and the other side is freaking out about Jewish-Americans who are off the Zionist "plantation," to borrow a buzzword from the right.
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And it's been that way this whole time. People are dying in large numbers and in America the discussion has been "wahh Zohran didn't condemn 'globalize the intifada', we are so unsafe here in scary New York City"
 
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#282
#282
NashVol11 said:
You said there are no innocent lives in Gaza, you should take a break from accusing anyone of spreading "propaganda" (and probably a break from the Internet in general)
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If you are gonna quote me, quote the whole post, it didn’t get past me that you took most of it out.

I stand by what I said.

MAD said:
There are no innocent lives in Gaza,
Don’t talk to me about starvation, humanitarian aid.
Hamas made a starving hostage dig his own grave on video.
You saw it.
You remained silent.
They are starving, they are torturing, humiliating.
Sexually brutalizing and murdering Israeli hostages.

And you and the others are….But yeah, yeah but Israel.
SHUT UP.

THIS IS ALL ON HAMAS
Laughing, mocking, soulless.


Because of Hamas, people will die, many people will die.
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Then I responded to someone I respect.
MAD said:
You are right RW.

100%, all the babies are innocent, every single one.

That’s why I said. It’s child abuse bringing up babies in that environment. I wish there was a way to get the babies out of there. Even in Nazi Germany there were Germans that helped Jews. There are things that the People of Gaza could do, have you heard of a single case of an Arab in Gaza helping one? They are complicit. They rather see the entire state of Israel annihilated and all the Jewish babies murdered, than care for their own babies.
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#283
#283
MAD said:
If you are gonna quote me, quote the whole post, it didn’t get past me that you took most of it out.

I stand by what I said.


Then I responded to someone I respect.
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None of that changes a thing about what I said, lol. You said it, and when I flagged it you doubled down and said it again, and then eventually you said babies are innocent (wow, groundbreaking) because it apparently took several different people mentioning it to you for it to cross your mind that babies might be innocent, with no comment on any other innocent civilians
 
#284
#284
I remember in the mid-to-late 2000's there was a bunch of anti-American sentiment regarding our foreign policy. Never for a second did I get mad at the world and try to blame the victim card and act like the world was bigoted against Americans like me.

I was mad at our government for tarnishing America's reputation.

Y'all are barking up the wrong tree. It's Bibi, stupid. He's the problem.
 
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#286
#286
hog88 said:
You'd have a point if Hamas gave up the hostages. But as long as you defend people holding hostages and the people providing them aid you're failing to use common sense.
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The idea that the war would end if Hamas released the hostages is a classic oversimplification. It ignores the deeper political, territorial, and military objectives at play, the history of conflicts persisting after demands are met, and the likelihood that operations or reprisals could continue regardless.
 
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#287
#287
❗️WATCH: 5 armed terrorists operating within a vehicle marked with a fake “World Central Kitchen” emblem, despite having no affiliation with the organization. They wore yellow vests and cynically exploited the trust given to aid groups to conceal their activity.




‼️ Armed Terrorists Operated Undercover in WCK Vehicle: Five armed terrorists were eliminated in Deir al-Balah while near a vehicle marked with the “World Central Kitchen” emblem. The terrorists wore yellow vests in an attempt to conceal their activity and avoid being targeted.

@cogatonline verified with the WCK organization that the vehicle had no connection to WCK’s operations.

This cynical abuse of humanitarian symbols is a tactic used by Hamas & other terror groups to shield themselves and advance their attacks at the expense of Gazan civilians.
 
#288
#288


Hamas's "Starvation Campaign" is a coordinated effort to mislead the public.

➡️A thorough review by the defense establishment exposes how Hamas is misrepresenting deaths from pre-existing medical conditions as malnutrition to advance their political agenda.

➡️For instance, in recent weeks, images of four-year-old Abdullah Hani Muhammad Abu Zarqa were circulated, claiming his condition was due to hunger in Gaza. A COGAT review found that he suffers from a genetic disease causing vitamin and mineral deficiencies, osteoporosis, and bone thinning - a hereditary illness that also affected other family members. Four months before the outbreak of the war, the child traveled with his mother, with Israeli approval, to receive medical treatment at Al-Makassed Hospital in east Jerusalem.

➡️Hamas cynically exploits tragic images and misuses them for a false and timed propaganda campaign aimed at generating pressure and creating negative public opinion against Israel.

➡️We will continue working to improve the humanitarian response in Gaza, in cooperation with the international community, while rejecting allegations of famine in the Gaza Strip.
 
#289
#289
KB5252 said:
I understand what you're getting at and agree to some extent. But considering this is guerilla warfare in an urban/densely populated area civilian deaths are inevitable.

Necessary or proportionate aren't part of the calculus. Removing Hamas is the objective. Hamas has embedded itself among under and behind Palestinians.

Given the stated goal of removing Hamas how would you prosecute this conflict if you had the control?

Not trying to play gotcha, just wanting to see if there are means or strategies I hadn't considered.
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Saying proportionality “isn’t part of the calculus” concedes the core problem. Guerrilla warfare in cities makes civilian harm more likely, but that doesn’t make every civilian death unavoidable or acceptable. Arguing that it’s inevitable risks excusing tactics that could be changed to reduce harm, and shifting the focus to whether a critic can design a perfect war plan avoids answering whether the current one meets basic moral and legal standards.
 
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#290
#290
n_huffhines said:
I remember in the mid-to-late 2000's there was a bunch of anti-American sentiment regarding our foreign policy. Never for a second did I get mad at the world and try to blame the victim card and act like the world was bigoted against Americans like me.

I was mad at our government for tarnishing America's reputation.

Y'all are barking up the wrong tree. It's Bibi, stupid. He's the problem.
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Correct, no country is absolved of criticism, especially by it’s own citizens. We can criticize the leadership of this country without being anti American, and we can criticize the leadership of Israel without being anti semitic. Hence why the weaponization of anti semitism as a political defense tactic is continuing to fall on deaf ears.
 
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#291
#291
Persian Vol said:
Saying proportionality “isn’t part of the calculus” concedes the core problem. Guerrilla warfare in cities makes civilian harm more likely, but that doesn’t make every civilian death unavoidable or acceptable. Arguing that it’s inevitable risks excusing tactics that could be changed to reduce harm, and shifting the focus to whether a critic can design a perfect war plan avoids answering whether the current one meets basic moral and legal standards.
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I would agree with that. Urban warfare is quite literally the worst possible form of combat short of indiscriminate nuclear assault. The average civilian/combatant death toll in urban warfare is 9/1. That doesn't mean that prudent steps cannot be taken to reduce civilian casualties. I have not (and will not) defend all of the actions that Israel has taken in this conflict. But, at the same time, I will not condemn Israel for doing what is necessary to defend its people. Israel did not choose this fight, and I do not blame them for choosing to end it.
 
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#292
#292
Persian Vol said:
Correct, no country is absolved of criticism, especially by it’s own citizens. We can criticize the leadership of this country without being anti American, and we can criticize the leadership of Israel without being anti semitic. Hence why the weaponization of anti semitism as a political defense tactic is continuing to fall on deaf ears.
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You can absolutely criticize Israel without being antisemitic however theres plenty of people that can’t do that without using antisemitic dog whistles, just as there’s plenty of people that cry antisemitism when it’s not there. Both are wrong and should be called out for it

We’ve reach a point where both sides are so extreme you have people saying little children are terrorists and another side that excuses real antisemitism and brushes it off as being anti Zionist and says they’re not victims because of what Bibi is doing. Both are ridiculous
 
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#293
#293
n_huffhines said:
It pretty much says it all that the priority for one side is dying, starving, mutilated children, and the other side is freaking out about Jewish-Americans who are off the Zionist "plantation," to borrow a buzzword from the right.
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Hamas started this war, butchering about 1,200 Israelis and taking hundreds of hostage.



They still hold 50 in tunnels and cages.



Israel sent 1.5 billion meals into Gaza, enough for 2 million people for more than two years. Think about that.



Hamas steals 90 percent of aid, selling it in order to fund terror.

In fact, Hamas made over half a billion dollars last year from manipulating the aid system.



UN agencies like UNRWA are infiltrated by Hamas. They are Hamas, and they help spread its lies.



It is not a famine. It's a terror economy.



Israel is the only nation on the earth expected to feed, supply, and power the very people who want them dead, the ones who were raised on Main Kampf instead of nursery rhymes.





Israel, is held to a standard that no other country would tolerate. In a war, Israel didn't start. Against an enemy that glorifies actual genocide, indoctrinates children to hate, and uses civilians as shields.



And somehow, Israel is the one accused of blood libels and war crimes. You know the hypocrisy?
 
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#294
#294
Persian Vol said:
The idea that the war would end if Hamas released the hostages is a classic oversimplification. It ignores the deeper political, territorial, and military objectives at play, the history of conflicts persisting after demands are met, and the likelihood that operations or reprisals could continue regardless.
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Still defending keeping innocent people hostage, disgusting.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TAKING/KEEPING HOSTAGES. Fight the war if you must but keeping hostages justifies whatever happens to you and your people.
 
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#295
#295
hog88 said:
Still defending keeping innocent people hostage, disgusting.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TAKING/KEEPING HOSTAGES. Fight the war if you must but keeping hostages justifies whatever happens to you and your people.
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Israel has thousands of Palestinian hostages so I'm sure you have that same energy for them
 
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#297
#297
Sea Ray said:
Can you be more specific? Are you claiming that Israel just picked these innocent Palestinians off the street and imprisoned them?
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In many cases, they did, for things like waving a Palestinian flag. Many other cases (over 4,000) of "administrative detention" which is indefinite despite no charges being brought
 
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