Iran

[Vol737]

North Korea has PRC to protect it.

That’s a Bingo!

 

[McDad]

Please tell me that ticker symbol is NUGTS and I’m buying a load!

Should be BEVR. That way you can tell your broker you want some beaver.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Israel should fly drones over the sites non stop to deter any excavation or repair activity.

I'm guessing you don't know what ceasefire means. If Israel invades Iranian airspace then Iran is justified in sending missiles back at Tel Aviv.

You guys seem to have no respect for rules unless it's the other side violating them.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it true, but you've proven (repeatedly) that you've either got absolutely no grasp of that concept, or you're willfully ignorant. My guess is the latter.

So you think dropping nukes on innocent civilians isn't an evil act? Mass killing of civilians is mass killing of civilians regardless of what justification you can come up with.

 

[Smokey123]

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You don't understand the scope of evil very well.

An easy one that's worse is the cultural genocide of Native Americans by the US. Not only were thousands and thousands killed, entire cultures were wiped off the map intentionally by reeducation and relocation.

Necessary for America to thrive? Absolutely.
Incalculably intentionally evil? Absolutely.

Ending the lives of several hundred thousand people with bombs is definitely evil but throughout history there are some truly wretched examples that are far worse in terms of actually removing a culture from existence in the world.

While the bombs were certainly horrific, we did not engage in the reeducation, relocation, and obliteration of Japanese culture.

That's why I specified single acts. The genocide of the Native Americans happened over a long period of time and was done my lots of different people. The dropping of nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were singular acts made at a particular moment but a particular set of men.

It's the single most evil act in human history no matter how you slice it because no single act killed as many innocent people in one swift moment.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I guess the invasion of mainland Japan, which could have been Okinawa x 100, would have been not evil. The bomb saved hundreds of thousands lives.

Sound military strategy doesn't negate the fact it was an evil act.

 

[Vol8188]

Sound military strategy doesn't negate the fact it was an evil act.

All war is evil. The only question is to what degree. If you believe it saved lives, it was the lesser of two evils

 

[hog88]

In 1945, the world's population was around 2.3 billion. Key countries and their estimated populations include: China (around 267 million), India (around 300 million), British Empire (around 545 million), and Japan (around 71 million). The United States had a population of roughly 140 million. The world population had increased since the start of World War II, despite the conflict causing significant loss of life

Ok and?

 

[norrislakevol]

Giant empty head and disproportionate bottom. Homely face from that angle.

As long as it's disproportionate in the right ways. I think her face is cute, but maybe she thinks her face is homely too. Those chicks are generally easier to tame, so that can be a win.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

All war is evil. The only question is to what degree. If you believe it saved lives, it was the lesser of two evils

Agreed. All war is evil. And you could argue more lives would have been lost in a prolonged ground war. None of that negates my statement which was that these were the two greatest SINGULAR acts of evil in human history. The fact there could have been even more evil acts possible doesn't negate the evil acts that were actually committed.

 

[LouderVol]

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/29/declassified-memo-hinted-of-1941-hawaii-attack-

Just like how Bush was warned in an intelligence memo that Bin Laden was determined to attack and did nothing, FDR was warned the Japanese would attack our bases in the Pacific and instead of putting our troops on high alert he let the attack happen so he could rally support from the American public to go into WW2. He knew that without something like Pearl Harbor the American public would have no appetite for a war with Germany and Japan.

I blame FDR because as the American President he had a duty to protect American lives. Japan's leadership didn't have a similar duty.

Troops were on alert. just not in Pearl Harbor.

we were mobilizing 10 divisions of reserves in the Philippines, MacArthur was drug out retirement a few months prior, and was given the task of completely flipping their military over. US reinforcements were sent in November with more planned in later December. That destroyer that sunk the Japanese sub had only been in PH for a few months, the Ward.

To get to Pearl Harbor the Japanese had to pass: The Philippines, Guam, Guadalcanal, Midway, The Aleutians, Saipan. and its not like it was only a few more miles, we are talking thousands of miles closer to Japan than PH. Most of those islands had also been reinforced.

There was no reason to think Pearl Harbor would be the first place to be attacked. and without a declaration of war you can't exactly keep a whole nation, or even theatre, at battle ready indefinitely. and battleships live in port. unless they had a mission they were staying put. it was the rest of the fleet, and air wings of the army, job to find the Japanese Fleet. The risk of deploying too early and being out of position was too much of a risk, and a cost.

If you want to blame FDR for the attack, you also have to give him credit for having the carriers deployed which kept the Japanese from landing troops. So at the same time he was "allowing" the bombings he was also "stopping" the landings.

The US did not know where the Japanese Fleet was before the attack. they had gone radio silent, and took an indirect path to PH with lots of doubling back, and course changes. There had been reports of Japanese ships all over the pacific without any concentration being spotted to say that is where they are going to attack. Even the Ward sinking the Japanese sub wasn't confirmed until a couple months after Pearl Harbor.

while radio and radar existed they weren't perfected and certainly were incapable of giving anyone enough foresite to track an enemy who didn't want to be tracked.

 

[KB5252]

Sound military strategy doesn't negate the fact it was an evil act.

All military action is by that standard evil. There likely has been no war ever fought that didn't cause the death of civilians, destruction of their livelihood and homes.

So yes, any act of war is technically "evil" to varying degrees.

So what we ask ourselves in the flip side is what is the objective, what are we willing to do to achieve that objective.

The bombing of Dresden, countless people died, I don't know the estimates but it was up there. But Dresden was the manufacturing hub of the German war machine, and their tech was better than ours. Destroying their capacity to out tech us on the battlefield was key.

Same with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To achieve the surrender of Japan it was decided this was the better option over a long drawn out invasion of Japanese islands and mainland. It would have been bloody tortuous rural and urban combat. With huge losses to American and Japanese armies as well as the civilian population. It has been argued both it and post war that the casualties would have been much higher for an invasion rather than the nuclear option they chose.

Was it a horrific act? Sure! But that is all war really is, a series of horrific acts.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

So our Manhattan Project... Did Germany and Japan know about it? (No)

No satellite is gonna show dick about a mine shaft entrance. Hell they could build a mosque and put the entrance there. This ain't rocket science.

LOL Are you really this dumb? But just for fun, how are they going to hide all the dirt coming out of the 'mosque'? If you dig a hole that deep, there will be dozens if not hundreds of truckloads of dirt that has to be moved out. They gonna do a Great Escape thing and bring it out in their socks?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

If Iran restarts the program, Israel may very well bomb it again

Hopefully they do. Each and every time it gets started up.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I mean, I do think satellite technology has come a long way since the 1940s……

MacArtuhr had great satellite imagery for his landing in Incheon. That's why it really wasn't that big of a deal.

 

[Vol8188]

Agreed. All war is evil. And you could argue more lives would have been lost in a prolonged ground war. None of that negates my statement which was that these were the two greatest SINGULAR acts of evil in human history. The fact there could have been even more evil acts possible doesn't negate the evil acts that were actually committed.

No they weren’t.

 

[Vol737]

Agreed. All war is evil. And you could argue more lives would have been lost in a prolonged ground war. None of that negates my statement which was that these were the two greatest SINGULAR acts of evil in human history. The fact there could have been even more evil acts possible doesn't negate the evil acts that were actually committed.

As unfortunate as it may have been to have to go that route, it ended a long and costly war. I think you forgot the holocaust, the killing fields of Cambodia, the Bolsheviks and consequently Stalin killings millions of their countrymen and all the other genocidal events of the world that were not used to stop a war, but for political gain. That’s what evil is.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

How's that WW3 thing going?

 

[CobbWebb71]

Oh but I thought Iran were religious fanatics who couldn't be trusted to not use a nuke the second they develop it. That's why we had to attack them.

And now we're trusting the same religious fanatics that would use a nuke if they had one with a ceasefire?

Look at the end of the day either Iran is a rational player on the world stage or a bunch of religious fanatics that can't be trusted. You can't have it both ways. You can't tell me that we had to attack them because they can't be trusted but then turn around declare victory when they agree to a ceasefire like any other rational actor.

Bud, the entire game of politics is theater, from the US to Iran, it’s all a big game to control we the people.
Some do it through lies and propaganda with a smile on their face and some choose to play it out through beatings and beheadings, while telling you they hate you.
Moral of the story...I don’t trust any of them!

 

[tbh]

So you think dropping nukes on innocent civilians isn't an evil act? Mass killing of civilians is mass killing of civilians regardless of what justification you can come up with.

Ah, so you're moving your goalposts a bit, eh? Try and stay focused.



Civilian casualties should be avoided whenever possible. Dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki led to a swifter end of the war, lessening the overall potential toll on the original aggressor (Imperial Japan) as well as the responding force (United States). Japan opened the conflict with the US, so at that point they punched their ticket to the ensuing ride. While a significant number of civilians died as a result of Fat Man and Little Boy, it was the correct move in order to avoid an even greater amount of death and suffering.

 

[CobbWebb71]

Should be BEVR. That way you can tell your broker you want some beaver.

Are you buying stock in the worlds oldest profession?

 

[n_huffhines]

425K views · 4.6K reactions | 𝙈𝙧𝙨. 𝙋𝙪𝙩𝙞𝙣 | Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[Volsdeep4]

So here's the ugly truth about Iran...

The precident is in place with North Korea that if you obtain nuclear arms nobody f**** with you. That's just the way the world works. In contrast you look at Libya and what happened to its leader Gaddafi and yeah the world just said we're going to take you out.

He died with a bayonet up his ass. Literally.

So the sad truth is that it is in Iran's best interest as a country and more importantly from its leader's perspective... to get a get out of jail free card by getting nukes.

If I were them I would tuck tail at this point, pretend to get along with everybody and build a new facility so far underground that it's unreachable by any weapons and then build a bomb. And then a year or two from now, present it to the world and say hey we're now nuclear armed so you can't f*** with us.

I'm not advocating this. I don't like Iran more than anybody else here, but this is the wise path for them and I don't see how you prevent it. Unless there's a diplomatic route.

Last thought... We have nukes. Yet we tell other sovereign countries, you can't have nukes. If I'm that third party country I'm like who the f*** are you to tell me what I can or what I can't do?

Hypocrisy no?

Do we bomb The Bahamas into glass if its leader decides it wants nukes?

Just. Saying.

You protect your own. I understand what Iran is doing and respect it. I also understand why they are getting bombed right now. They knew it would come to this.
To your point about hiding the bomb making. I think they could build it under everyone’s nose at Bushehr nuclear power site. A working reactor, Russian scientists, if it’s bombed the radiation will carry into the Persian gulf. I would bet money there’s where the uranium is at now.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I'm not saying it wasn’t sound military strategy. I'm saying it was an evil act. You could argue war is nothing but evil acts. But that doesn't change the fact those were the two greatest single acts of evil in human history regardless of how sound they were from a tactical perspective.

„two greatest evils in human history“
So you rank it above….
The Holocaust
African slavery
The ethnic cleansing of Native Americans
The killing fields of Cambodia
The Armenian genocide
The Cultural Revolution
Stalin‘s farm collectivization
The Spanish conquest of Mayans and Aztecs

BTW, we killed more Japanese in the fire bombing of Tokyo than we did in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.