Iran

#5,577
#5,577
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Those history books are trying to justify the act. Once again if a ground war with Iran last years would we be justified in using a nuke today on Tehran?

There is no moral justification for what we did. We only did it cause we could get away with it as the first mover. If Japan had a nuke we wouldn't have dropped anything.
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Your wrong, I'll take the words of the people that was there.
 
#5,581
#5,581
volbound1700 said:
Agree. Politics tends to not line up well with the Bible.

In my view, the real story is how the USA, as a society, has turned away from God over time. Politics only followed society down this broken road. I think God is more focused on the individuals. Take the Roman Empire as an example. God spread Christianity through Apostles like Paul, Peter, etc. instead of putting a chosen person on the throne as Caesar.

Some Christians have looked towards politicians to save us when we probably need more people like Paul or Peter.
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Politics and religion mix VERY VERY VERY well if you're willing to be hardcore enough about it.

Israel and the Saudis show this. Heavily religious based govts that rule their countries with an extremely firm grasp.

Some would say Americans lack the religious zeal to create a truly Christian nation and that amending the Constitution to reflect America as a real Christian nation with Biblically based laws would be the best thing America ever did.

I'm just saying nations DO thrive with politics being tied heavily to religion. They mix well but you've got to have a population which is REALLY committed to a religion. America isn't ACTUALLY that Christian, obviously.
 
#5,583
#5,583
Vol8188 said:
That’s the “democratic process”, sure. But it wasn’t the process in Iran. The constitution specified the power to select and remove a PM was given to The Shah.

It’s fair to say Mosaddegh’s confirmation was different. Parliament still didn’t select him. The Shah selected him, but prior to agreeing to formally accept the appointment from The Shah he first wished to be approved by parliament.

He was the only PM approved first by parliament.

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The State Department thought otherwise. See paragraph 2, lines 6 and 7. Per that he wasn't the Shah's free choice.

Historical Documents - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell
history.state.gov history.state.gov
 
#5,584
#5,584
05_never_again said:
It's a liberal thing to apply commandments in the Bible (which I agree focuses on individuals) and apply them to institutions.

For example, they use Jesus's commandments about helping the poor to advocate for government programs that help the poor, rather than taking money out of your own pocket to give to the poor (which I think is what is actually meant). It's easy to be generous with other people's money.
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I think when people complain about government taking money from them to provide services for the poor, it raises the question of whether those people were actually planning to give to the poor or were simply paying lip service to it
 
#5,585
#5,585
Israel’s defense budget is ~$25–27 billion/year

Ongoing war costs (Gaza + Iran + Lebanon) are estimated at $15–30 billion/month

That means in theory Israel is burning through its entire annual defense budget every 1–2 months.

Israel will want to continue bombing for as long as they want, but they won’t be able to do it without American money.
 
#5,587
#5,587
CagleMtnVol said:
That was what was projected by General MacArthur's staff.
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I thought that number was military plus civilians.

Remember Japan had it's people thinking fighting back/suicide was the only answer if invaded. In fact it is reported that dozens possibly hundreds leapt to their deaths on some of the smaller islands we took.
 
#5,588
#5,588
Vol8188 said:
These claims aren’t remotely true. You seem to be confusing 53 and 79. In 79 Iran was very secular. Which is what lead to an Islamic backlash.

We didn’t install some religious fanatic. The Iranians did that.
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I believe Iran's government was very secular but the people weren't so much so. Hence the clerics at the head of the revolution.
The clerics were very well liked before the revolution and very much disliked after the Ayatollah had been in power for a while, or so I've heard.
 
#5,589
#5,589
NashVol11 said:
I think when people complain about government taking money from them to provide services for the poor, it raises the question of whether those people were actually planning to give to the poor or were simply paying lip service to it
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I don't know.

Regardless, I don't think Jesus's statements about helping the poor was him advocating for government-run social programs funded via taxation as is claimed by some.
 
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#5,590
#5,590
Persian Vol said:
Israel’s defense budget is ~$25–27 billion/year

Ongoing war costs (Gaza + Iran + Lebanon) are estimated at $15–30 billion/month

That means in theory Israel is burning through its entire annual defense budget every 1–2 months.

Israel will want to continue bombing for as long as they want, but they won’t be able to do it without American money.
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Not one damn penny
 
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#5,592
#5,592
McDad said:
and back to this tweet for another thought. The twit's tweet claims Iran's enrichment is 99.99% tied to Trump pulling out of jcpoa. Even though other countries remained in it. And, even though other countries (UK) acknowledge it wasn't working. If jcpoa was a 'good' agreement, it should have both worked and continued without our involvement. Are we compelled to remain in non effective agreements where we are the only country whose involvement is consequential?
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Are you seriously asking if the United States is supposed to keep its commitments?

You understand that if the US pulls out and behaves like an enemy, then Iran has more reason to want to enrich Uranium, right? Iran is not scared of the UK. They are scared of us. They joined the deal because they are scared of us and they stopped observing the deal because they are scared of us.
 
#5,593
#5,593
Looks like Israel has blown the doors off of Iran's political prison.

Also, the Iranian clock that was counting down the days/hours/minutes until Israel's destruiction has been destroyed.
 
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#5,598
#5,598
Orange_Crush said:
It's telling that you don't have a better response.
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If someone really believes that Iran has been weeks away from nukes the roughly 700 times it has been claimed over 40 years now, and that we just narrowly escaped every single time, they are gullible beyond help. Not sure what other response you would be looking for
 
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#5,599
#5,599
NashVol11 said:
I think when people complain about government taking money from them to provide services for the poor, it raises the question of whether those people were actually planning to give to the poor or were simply paying lip service to it
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You are free to think anything you want.
 
#5,600
#5,600
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Politics and religion mix VERY VERY VERY well if you're willing to be hardcore enough about it.

Israel and the Saudis show this. Heavily religious based govts that rule their countries with an extremely firm grasp.

Some would say Americans lack the religious zeal to create a truly Christian nation and that amending the Constitution to reflect America as a real Christian nation with Biblically based laws would be the best thing America ever did.

I'm just saying nations DO thrive with politics being tied heavily to religion. They mix well but you've got to have a population which is REALLY committed to a religion. America isn't ACTUALLY that Christian, obviously.
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We were and weren't designed to be a Christian nation. It is the common legal debate. If you go off side writings from the Framers, yes we probably should be more of a Christian nation. If you go off what is literally in writing with the Constitution and Laws, we don't have much to go off of as a Christian nation. I do think a lot of it was differed to the States but the States were neutered by the 14th Amendment and specifically how the Supreme Court has interpreted the 14th Amendment.

That being said, the Founders lived in a time were religion and state were more common as they were closer to the Medieval view point of Christendom than we are today. We have been through 200 years of further enlightenment. People forget that the Western mindset comes out of Christian Europe and you take a look at, let's say, 1500s Europe, you will see a very different approach and mindset around Christianity versus our modern take. I am not going to give an opinion on whether it was good or not. The Founders had the religious turmoil of the 1500 and 1600s with the Protestant reformation, 60 years war, the Anglican persecution of Puritans, Quakers, etc., Bloody Mary and the push to make England Catholic again, etc. on their mind when they wrote our Constitution.

Keep in mind that our nation was born off a culture that once thought the King was divinely appointed by God and that turning your back on Christianity and following a different faith (and in many cases turning your back on the Catholic Church, not just Christianity) was tantamount to treason.
 
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