Trade Wars and Tariffs

#5,051
#5,051
If trade deficits dont matter, then why is every nation upset with correcting it?
China developed off these surpluses.
Many nations, including Vietnam and Mexico, are proxies for Chinese trade to avoid US restrictions.
It is disgrace that we have a trade imbalance of $250B with EU.

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#5,052
#5,052
bamawriter said:
That's a great case for targeted tariffs on China and arguments against tariffs on Holland. How about the other 200+ nations?

Start with two countries with whom we have our largest trade deficits and against whom Trump intends to levy the largest tariffs: Vietnam and Lesotho. How are those massive trade deficits a problem for the US?
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Are those MASSIVE trade deficits or simply trade deficits? But 25 separate trade deficits might become massive in total. Isn’t Vietnam a massive contributor to the Pacific Ocean plastics garbage patch? We could put 0/10 on the table with them but they need to not be wrecking the environment.

Deal with each country. Start with the biggest partners. If those with smallish economies want to get in line early and wrap up theirs, then fine.

FAIR trade with everybody. Better than FREE trade with everybody. Free trade leads to deficits. Fair trading is a more mutually beneficial arrangement.
 
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#5,053
#5,053
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I didn’t find the description of our investment of tens of billions, but if TSM is creating hundreds of billions of manufacturing capacity in exchange then it’s a good arrangement. Our payoff is having greater control of the chip supply channel and the jobs that went to Americans.

Is it one plant that just recently came online (I thought somebody posted that there are now three), with a second with going live three years out, and a third having just broken ground?
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So we have you down for approving the incentives under IRA (the 25% Investment Credit and 45X) and CHIPS...

I really dont like govt picking winners and losers here. I dont like IRA and I dont like CHIPS. I can at least buy your argument as a rational justification....
 
#5,054
#5,054
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Are those MASSIVE trade deficits or simply trade deficits? But 25 separate trade deficits might become massive in total. Isn’t Vietnam a massive contributor to the Pacific Ocean plastics garbage patch? We could put 0/10 on the table with them but they need to not be wrecking the environment.

Deal with each country. Start with the biggest partners. If those with smallish economies want to get in line early and wrap up theirs, then fine.

FAIR trade with everybody. Better than FREE trade with everybody. Free trade leads to deficits. Fair trading is a more mutually beneficial arrangement.
Click to expand...

They are the two largest trade deficits the US has, hence Trump's plan to levy the two largest tariffs on them. If those deficits aren't "MASSIVE," then no trade deficit is "MASSIVE" and your entire argument is irrelevant.
 
#5,059
#5,059
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#5,060
#5,060
CobbVol said:
The Australian market has not been open to US beef producers for 2 decades. That was/is the issue with Australia.

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So it's worth crapping on a decades old zero tariff agreement with a stratregic ally with whom we run a large trade surplus over one agricultural good?

It requires a room temperature IQ to support that nonsense.
 
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#5,061
#5,061
BigOrangeMojo said:
So we have you down for approving the incentives under IRA (the 25% Investment Credit and 45X) and CHIPS...

I really dont like govt picking winners and losers here. I dont like IRA and I dont like CHIPS. I can at least buy your argument as a rational justification....
Click to expand...

TSM is a foreign domiciled country. I don’t know how income taxes are determined for those entities. But if they build plants here, create good jobs for US workers that pay taxes, diversify the sourcing of what they’re producing for us (our not being overly dependent on manufacturing facilities inside of Taiwan), and those US fabs are generating profits by selling to customers outside of the US then it’s a great deal. They get a credit on their US tax obligation on profits that aren’t there otherwise (and with a mix of customers, not almost exclusively US customers), then those tax credits cost us very little. A net positive actually with a quick pay back. It’d be a different story if the US chip producers hadn’t mostly gone fabless. TSM looks like a similar arrangement to Japan, Germany, and Korea assembling vehicles here and selling them around the globe. There’s currently so much demand for chips right now that TSM isn’t going to drive others (Intel for example) into financial despair.

Last time I checked, INTC and TXN were the only US integrated device manufacturers (along with Samsung in SK). ADI, IBM, Broadcom, MU, HP, and ON are loosely defined as IDMs by some definitions. Our big chip dogs (NVDA, QCOM, AMD) are fabless and have design and IP while there are only a couple of foundry operators to make their products. TSM is by far the biggest, Global Foundries is a fraction of TSM’s size, and China owned UMC are pretty much the pure play foundry universe. Building a strong alliance with TSM is a great strategy. Winning with fair trade.

Another benefit for TSM… access to US capital through ADRs. A benefit for US citizens… capital gains on those ADR shares and appreciation for those not selling. Plus the dividend. Benefit for dot gov… tax revenue on the capital gains and dividends.
 
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#5,062
#5,062
bamawriter said:
They are the two largest trade deficits the US has, hence Trump's plan to levy the two largest tariffs on them. If those deficits aren't "MASSIVE," then no trade deficit is "MASSIVE" and your entire argument is irrelevant.
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Vietnam and Lesotho are our 2 largest trade deficits? Who knew? But don’t overlook that Vietnam is communist and can go rogue at any time. Lesotho plays around in the corruption universe. So allowing trade deficits with those two can result in better behavior in other areas.
 
#5,063
#5,063
lawgator1 said:
Judges ruke against Trump, they are activists who must be removed.

Appellate judges enter a procedural short term order and God Bless Our Judges !
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what is happening to Trump is UNPRECEDENTED with over 90 per cent of injunctions coming from leftist activist judges simply trying to thwart Trumps agenda. If there were very few injunctions then you might have a point. These lower county judges getting slapped down by higher courts is further proof of their activism in having a district court judge trying to impose his/her will on the entire nation.
 
#5,064
#5,064
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Vietnam and Lesotho are our 2 largest trade deficits? Who knew? But don’t overlook that Vietnam is communist and can go rogue at any time. Lesotho plays around in the corruption universe. So allowing trade deficits with those two can result in better behavior in other areas.
Click to expand...

Explain how it is even remotely possible to equalize our trade deficits with either short of no longer buying anything they produce.
 
#5,065
#5,065
bamawriter said:
Explain how it is even remotely possible to equalize our trade deficits with either short of no longer buying anything they produce.
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Each country has a unique set of variables. I’d guess that our primary reasons for allowing them (Vietnam) to be north of $100 billion with the imbalance is to contribute to their development and to have a better source than China to weave our underwear. We can also use it as leverage to incentivize them to not pollute the Pacific. We can send them a bill for $10 billion or forgive it while keeping the option in our back pocket if they become a menace or get too friendly with China.

I wish that Congress would give POTUS more formalized trading authority instead of obstructing which seems to be nearly all partisan driven nonsense. It’s kind of the country’s CEO’s job to manage the economy. He can move quickly. The LB tends to unnecessarily fight over everything and drag **** out. The voters picked him. Congress shouldn’t be working so hard against him.
 
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#5,066
#5,066
It took 2 months to rule against Trump's tariffs and 1 day to rule against that ruling, lmao. The deck is so stacked.
 
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