President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#25,078
#25,078
BowlBrother85 said:
The President of the United States has business making demands of where a company can and can't manufacture their products .... and you are dead wrong. A more competent negotiator than Donald Trump obviously is, wouldn't start with threats. He would incentivize. At heart, though ... Donald Trump is a bully, who will start with threats. Such a measure is a step towards authoritarianism.
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Where am I wrong?
 
#25,080
#25,080
Majors said:
It does. You’re confusing a business owner with POTUS.
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LOL.

Republicans use the words of Democrats from even longer back than that, all the time .... and before they entered into politics. I don't begrudge them for that either.

Sorry, but a hypocrite is a hypocrite. Words don't change as career paths change. That is the beautiful part of Trump's complete lack of self-awareness.
 
#25,081
#25,081
BigOrangeMojo said:
The hypocrisy over a two decade old licensing agreement is meh.

The POTUS selectively targeting one company at the expense of others solely for political reasons is the bigger story here...
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Trump's epic scale hypocrisy is definitely a part of this story too. Though, I agree with you about Trump's vindictiveness being more important. The threat of 25% tariffs is an abuse of power and it does constitute a step towards authoritarianism.
 
#25,082
#25,082
BowlBrother85 said:
LOL.

Republicans use the words of Democrats from even longer back than that, all the time .... and before they entered into politics. I don't begrudge them for that either.

Sorry, but a hypocrite is a hypocrite. Words don't change as career paths change. That is the beautiful part of Trump's complete lack of self-awareness.
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So, based off your own words, you would deem yourself a hypocrite. Your rules not mine.
 
#25,085
#25,085
Majors said:
You pick and choose. You don’t hold your own party accountable when their own word/platforms come back to haunt them on changing. You stay silent, hence…hypocrite.
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That's not true. I have been far more critical of Joe Biden on this forum, than the echo chamber on here is of Donald Trump - and look at the crap you will defend him for.

These threats against Apple are an obvious abuse of executive power. If Trump wants Apple to manufacture their telecommunications devices in the United States, than he should help provide incentives for them to make that choice on their own. Trump should not be singling them out for 25% tariffs and issuing direct threats to their CEO. That is outrageous conduct by an American President.
 
#25,087
#25,087
BowlBrother85 said:
Singling out one company with a threat of 25% tariffs is not an expected result of a President trying to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. That was a stupid thing for you to suggest.
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It's a high value added product line with links to security so it's normal to have it on the list of things to onshore. Yeah ideally he should have said something more generic and more diplomatic, but a) that's not possible with him and b) are there any other American mobile phone manufacturers? If there's only one then everyone knows the target.
The main point I was aiming to make is that meddling with private businesses is part and parcel of taking action to move American companies' production back to the US, and enticing foreign companies to set up shop here too.
 
#25,089
#25,089
EasternVol said:
a) that's not possible with him and b) are there any other American mobile phone manufacturers?
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Those are not valid excuses for those threats.

"a) that's not possible with with him""

Uhhh .... it should be when it's the President of the United States. The default reaction should never be to make threats when you are supposedly a leader.

.... and Apple should not be singled out this way. In fact, threats should not be made at all by the President. Incentives should be provided by the government, sufficient enough so that it will be to Apple's financial and competitive advantage to make the choice to relocate manufacturing jobs/facilities to the United States on their own.

The manner in which Donald Trump has handled this. is heavy-handed, and a step towards authoritarian-style rule.
 
#25,090
#25,090
EasternVol said:
That's an expected result of pushing for American companies to move production back onshore though. That means meddling in private enterprise, which the government does massively already. Trump's an ass for calling out Cook by name but that's his nature.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
#25,091
#25,091
BowlBrother85 said:
Singling out one company with a threat of 25% tariffs is not an expected result of a President trying to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. That was a stupid thing for you to suggest.
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Only if he's planning to not do the same for other US companies making their products there. I can tell my oldest kid that they'll be grounded for sneaking out after bedtime. That doesn't mean the other two can sneak out after bedtime.

From that perspective, it is expected. It falls completely in line with the stance: "Build here or it will cost you in tariffs."
 
#25,092
#25,092
BowlBrother85 said:
Trump's epic scale hypocrisy is definitely a part of this story too. Though, I agree with you about Trump's vindictiveness being more important. The threat of 25% tariffs is an abuse of power and it does constitute a step towards authoritarianism.
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Exercising tariffs for products made overseas is a presidential abuse of power and authoritarian?

This is similar to the lazy overuse of the term "Nazi". You make it meaningless with mis-application.
 
#25,094
#25,094
Orange_Crush said:
Only if he's planning to not do the same for other US companies making their products there. I can tell my oldest kid that they'll be grounded for sneaking out after bedtime. That doesn't mean the other two can sneak out after bedtime.

From that perspective, it is expected. It falls completely in line with the stance: "Build here or it will cost you in tariffs."
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That is so ridiculous.

The government should be creating incentives for business to relocate their manufacturing jobs/ facilities to the United States; not threatening them with 25% tariffs, when they believe. it's in their best interest to manufacture overseas.

Once again, Donald Trump didn't have a problem with outsourcing, when he was associated with a business, through a licensing agreement, which did outsource manufacturing to Bangladesh and China.

"Well, that's good. We employ people in Bangladesh. They have to work too."

- Donald Trump after being informed by David Letterman that products bearing his name, which he was associated with through a licensing agreement, had been made in Bangladesh and China.
 
#25,096
#25,096
EasternVol said:
The main point I was aiming to make is that meddling with private businesses is part and parcel of taking action to move American companies' production back to the US, and enticing foreign companies to set up shop here too.
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If you call providing incentives for businesses to relocate their manufacturing jobs/facilities to the United States? Then you are correct. If you are suggesting that it's standard operating procedure for American Presidents to be publicly threatening the CEO of an American company with a 25% tariff, if they don't relocate? Then you are very wrong, and way off-base here. Such threatening demands constitute executive overreach, and are a step towards authoritarian-style rule.
 
#25,097
#25,097
BowlBrother85 said:
That is so ridiculous.

The government should be creating incentives for business to relocate their manufacturing jobs/ facilities to the United States; not threatening them with 25% tariffs, when they believe. it's in their best interest to manufacture overseas.

Once again, Donald Trump didn't have a problem with outsourcing, when he was associated with a business, through a licensing agreement, which did outsource manufacturing to Bangladesh and China.

"Well, that's good. We employ people in Bangladesh. They have to work too."

- Donald Trump after being informed by David Letterman that products bearing his name, which he was associated with through a licensing agreement, had been made in Bangladesh and China.
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You know, "should" is a very strange word. You have been abusing it. Try convincing us why, as opposed to assuming it and moving on to screeching about authoritarianism. You're basically a one-trick pony that throws logic and reason out the window in favor of efforts to demonize people that you disagree with.

And you're wasting your time with the 'hypocrite' diversion. It's just a go-to because it's easy to throw out when you realize that discussions have turned in such a way that you're showing when you're out of your depth. "Muh Trump! Take that MAGAs!"

We are all hypocrites at some point in the same ways that Trump was hypocritical in that way. As has been pointed out, you are judging the actions of a business owner who was operating withing the paradigm of other leadership, vs the actions of a leader trying to fix the paradigm.

As an example, I have always been against stimulus checks, but I cashed the stimulus checks. If I'd been in control, there would have been no stimulus checks. But I wasn't, so I operated within that paradigm.

So, maybe trump was a hypocrite. OK. Granted. That doesn't make him authoritarian for placing tariffs on foreign made products for US businesses. You're being lazy. Stop it.
 
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#25,099
#25,099
BowlBrother85 said:
That is so ridiculous.

The government should be creating incentives for business to relocate their manufacturing jobs/ facilities to the United States; not threatening them with 25% tariffs, when they believe. it's in their best interest to manufacture overseas.

Once again, Donald Trump didn't have a problem with outsourcing, when he was associated with a business, through a licensing agreement, which did outsource manufacturing to Bangladesh and China.

"Well, that's good. We employ people in Bangladesh. They have to work too."

- Donald Trump after being informed by David Letterman that products bearing his name, which he was associated with through a licensing agreement, had been made in Bangladesh and China.
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He talks bad about China and how we need to fix it shortly after this quote. For years, we have followed the same American playbook. I am willing to wait and see if he is able to correct some of our previous failings. I don't agree with Trump on many things but I have also never tried to negotiate deals with most powerful men/women in the world.
 
#25,100
#25,100
Orange_Crush said:
You know, "should" is a very strange word. You have been abusing it. Try convincing us why, as opposed to assuming it and moving on to screeching about authoritarianism. You're basically a one-trick pony that throws logic and reason out the window in favor of efforts to demonize people that you disagree with.

And you're wasting your time with the 'hypocrite' diversion. It's just a go-to because it's easy to throw out when you realize that discussions have turned in such a way that you're showing when you're out of your depth. "Muh Trump! Take that MAGAs!"

We are all hypocrites at some point in the same ways that Trump was hypocritical in that way. As has been pointed out, you are judging the actions of a business owner who was operating withing the paradigm of other leadership, vs the actions of a leader trying to fix the paradigm.

As an example, I have always been against stimulus checks, but I cashed the stimulus checks. If I'd been in control, there would have been no stimulus checks. But I wasn't, so I operated within that paradigm.

So, maybe trump was a hypocrite. OK. Granted. That doesn't make him authoritarian for placing tariffs on foreign made products for US businesses. You're being lazy. Stop it.
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It is authoritarian for a President to be making such threats to the CEO of a business, concerning where they should manufacture their products. There is nothing wrong with the word "should" either. Trump's approach to Apple is heavy-handed, and it shows no capacity for negotiating a deal which would be in the best interest of both Apple and the American economy.

Don't blame me for pointing out that Donald Trump is an ineffective leader, with zero capacity for negotiation. Instead of making deals where both parties benefit, every deal involving Donald Trump is a zero sum game to him, where there is only a winner and a loser. That is not the "art" of a deal. That is yet another example of Donald Trump embracing authoritarian-style rule.
 
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