Do you consider Canada an ally?

[EasternVol]

Even if they didn't have demographic problems, their economy is entirely dependent on the continued maintenance of a global security dynamic (namely, the US Navy patrolling the world's oceans) that they have no control over. And as we've seen over the last decade plus (particularly under Trump), the US is getting less interested by the day in continuing the maintain that dynamic.

They are not in a particularly advantageous position geopolitically, despite what is commonly believed.

If we stop patrolling the world's oceans today, what effect would that have on China's economy?

 

[EasternVol]

I don't care as much about the defense argument. To be frank, half of NATO members role/value is to just give access to the NATO nations that can truly provide resources.

Trump didn't do anything. Canadians bought into stupid media fights between idiotic politicians instead of voting for a real leader. Another nation's leader should never impact the choice to pick your own leader. I also don't think the Canadian "Conservative" was a very good candidate. He was wish washy and kind of their version of a Mitt Romney. Young Canadians cannot even afford housing so it is really their problem. Ultimately it is their mess. Frankly, even if Kamala was in office, I still think they would vote in a liberal because they are just not very smart (well at least in Ontario and Quebec which are the only provinces that pretty much matter on election night there).

How would the bolded text have played out in the UK in the late 1930's and early 40's?

 

[EasternVol]

Yeah, leaders say stupid crap all the time. Trudeau and others say crap about us.

Hell, nations threaten to kill the entirety of the USA on a daily basis. Does that impact our elections?

You must have some interesting news feeds. Who's been threatening to kill us all daily?

 

[EasternVol]

that's a good question. O5 said all allied relationships are inequitable in some way. I tend to agree.

Has there ever been an allied relationship that is equitable? I am sure there has but I cannot think of any examples.

The opposing alliances at the beginning of WWI were fairly equitable equal.

 

[EasternVol]

Most allied relationships are formed because one or both are lacking something or vulnerable somewhere. Geography, military, economy, import/export, culture, government … there are so many variables that set countries apart I don’t know how anyone could assume anything would be measurably equitable in an allied partnership.

Or because of shared interests, i.e. not wanting to be overrun by Germany or lose their Asian colonies to Japan in WWII.

 

[OHvol40]

Or because of shared interests, i.e. not wanting to be overrun by Germany or lose their Asian colonies to Japan in WWII.

Kinda like being vulnerable to being overrun by Germany or losing colonies?

 

[norrislakevol]

China was facing a population crisis either way. don't address it, and their noted food insecurity gets even worse.

they have been net importers of food for forever. considering its a change from their great leap backwards, its a much better long term plan. especially as it got them embedded with a bunch of other nations into trade associations, BRICS, they otherwise wouldn't have.

they have been building up their navy, to the point where they are producing far more military shipping than we can. they have expanded control into the South China Sea. and many of their trade deals, and infrastructure projects come with carve outs for future military use.

political system is bad in a moral sense, but it has been remarkably stable, and survived a lot. its also responsible for generating a ton of growth in China's economy, and military. they essentially started at nothing in the 70s, and are now unquestionably the second leading power in the world on pretty much every front.

china has been reworking their finances, much of the shakiness is because they were so heavily buyers of our debt. they have been slowly backing out of that after they got what they needed from it, namely building up their own infrastructure.

China's one child policy has screwed them long term as they face the issue of too many old people versus younger workers. They can't just magically make up that gap. They have some slave labor, but not enough.

They also have a lot of their people savings tied up in real estate. This has not worked out too well for them.

They may have a lot of ships, but they don't have a true blue water navy. They would have a hard time moving large amounts of ships more than a thousand miles off their coast.

I also find it very funny that over 200K Chinese students are studying in the U.S. about every year. They can't really invent things for themselves, so they copy and steal ideas. The U.S. should throw all their students out because they are nothing more than spies. China would totally sh!t themselves if that happened.

 

[Orangeburst]

 

[JL24]

With the way the winds are blowing in Canada, I wouldn't be opposed to sending in the military to the northern border.

We've secured the southern border. I would love to have that same presence in the north.

 

[LadyVolette]

Back to the original query.. do you consider Canada an ally? Yes in the sense of our common shared British Commonwealth/Colonial, French backgrounds and shared history.. but over time we have had less and less in common and the relationship has become more strained and one-sided.. so are they an ally, yes, but one you cannot completely trust imo.. they are a little squirrelly and shady

 

[BowlBrother85]

With the way the winds are blowing in Canada, I wouldn't be opposed to sending in the military to the northern border.

We've secured the southern border. I would love to have that same presence in the north.

That wouldn't look very self-aware. That would be like if I took out a restraining order against Margot Robbie, as if she was going to stalk me and sexually harass me.

Basically, I don't believe that very many Canadians are jealous of us and clamoring to come here. As far as the way winds are blowing in Canada? Donald Trump is heavily responsible for the current friction between our nations, and mostly responsible for why the Liberals were able to retain power. They appeared to be dead in the water after Justin Trudeau stepped down.

 

[Vol8188]

With the way the winds are blowing in Canada, I wouldn't be opposed to sending in the military to the northern border.

We've secured the southern border. I would love to have that same presence in the north.

Why do your takes continually get worse?

 

[Vol8188]

This thread is ripe with the pro Russian, Bernie sanders isolationism, that Reverend Tucker Carlson preaches every night

 

[LouderVol]

China's one child policy has screwed them long term as they face the issue of too many old people versus younger workers. They can't just magically make up that gap. They have some slave labor, but not enough.

They also have a lot of their people savings tied up in real estate. This has not worked out too well for them.

They may have a lot of ships, but they don't have a true blue water navy. They would have a hard time moving large amounts of ships more than a thousand miles off their coast.

I also find it very funny that over 200K Chinese students are studying in the U.S. about every year. They can't really invent things for themselves, so they copy and steal ideas. The U.S. should throw all their students out because they are nothing more than spies. China would totally sh!t themselves if that happened.

again, I don't think China needs to make up that gap. a lot of their current instability, and forced economy, is simply trying to keep everyone employed. fewer people=fewer problems. especially as they are weeding out demographics that raise those issues.

the real estate issue isn't that its tied up in real estate, the problem is its tied up in "fake" estate. properties that only exist on paper, or in some city that no one lives in. since the Evergrande collapse there have been some changes. takes a long time to change an economy like China's though.

I don't think they necessarily need to. isn't it something stupid like 50% of the world's population lives within that 1000 mile bubble of China? plenty of resources in the area. controlling that is enough to protect china from the threats they face.

 

[05_never_again]

If we stop patrolling the world's oceans today, what effect would that have on China's economy?

The security of the shipping lanes they send all their exported products through couldn't be guaranteed. They don't have a blue water navy.

 

[norrislakevol]

again, I don't think China needs to make up that gap. a lot of their current instability, and forced economy, is simply trying to keep everyone employed. fewer people=fewer problems. especially as they are weeding out demographics that raise those issues.

the real estate issue isn't that its tied up in real estate, the problem is its tied up in "fake" estate. properties that only exist on paper, or in some city that no one lives in. since the Evergrande collapse there have been some changes. takes a long time to change an economy like China's though.

I don't think they necessarily need to. isn't it something stupid like 50% of the world's population lives within that 1000 mile bubble of China? plenty of resources in the area. controlling that is enough to protect china from the threats they face.

You make good points, but I really think they are a paper tiger. Things are going to get real interesting as manufacturing slowly begins leaving them.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Canada went to war for us. Yes they are an ally. What is this world coming to...sad.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Back to the original query.. do you consider Canada an ally? Yes in the sense of our common shared British Commonwealth/Colonial, French backgrounds and shared history.. but over time we have had less and less in common and the relationship has become more strained and one-sided.. so are they an ally, yes, but one you cannot completely trust imo.. they are a little squirrelly and shady

Trust them? How much do you think they trust after our President said he was going to make them the 51st state?

 

[LouderVol]

You make good points, but I really think they are a paper tiger. Things are going to get real interesting as manufacturing slowly begins leaving them.

I think when that economic fall happens, its going to happen the world over. either china taking down the rest of the world, or the rest of the world taking down China, take your pick.

I think that is why you have seen them begin investing in countries the world over with the type of deals that would make our sleaziest nation building look pure. they are diversifying outside of China in important geographic areas. I don't think any, or even all of it, is enough to "save" current China, but I think they have put themselves in a far better situation that they otherwise would be.

go look at the wiki for the Belt and Road Initiative if you need to see how far reaching that are being. the silk road part of that is clearly set up to minimize/reduce their dependance on sea trade. sea trade is always going to be the most efficient, but they are making sure they have a reliable back up.

 

[tvolsfan]

35 years is ample time to sever the potential existence of an entire generation, my dude.

I wasn’t disputing that.

 

[EasternVol]

Back to the original query.. do you consider Canada an ally? Yes in the sense of our common shared British Commonwealth/Colonial, French backgrounds and shared history.. but over time we have had less and less in common and the relationship has become more strained and one-sided.. so are they an ally, yes, but one you cannot completely trust imo.. they are a little squirrelly and shady

It's a good thing we've never had squirelly and shady leadership. Whew.

 

[05_never_again]

I think when that economic fall happens, its going to happen the world over. either china taking down the rest of the world, or the rest of the world taking down China, take your pick.

I think that is why you have seen them begin investing in countries the world over with the type of deals that would make our sleaziest nation building look pure. they are diversifying outside of China in important geographic areas. I don't think any, or even all of it, is enough to "save" current China, but I think they have put themselves in a far better situation that they otherwise would be.

go look at the wiki for the Belt and Road Initiative if you need to see how far reaching that are being. the silk road part of that is clearly set up to minimize/reduce their dependance on sea trade. sea trade is always going to be the most efficient, but they are making sure they have a reliable back up.

No it won't. The Chinese don't innovate anything. The high-end R&D, intellectual content, etc. is either in the United States or outside of China. They don't have a military capable of power projection far from their borders. They are overly reliant on imports for their food and energy. Their population is declining.

 

[EasternVol]

The security of the shipping lanes they send all their exported products through couldn't be guaranteed. They don't have a blue water navy.

How do they have a navy base in Africa if they don't have a blue water navy? Who would threaten their shipping if we're not guarding it. Don't forget several other Davies also patrol the seas and piracy hotspots in particular.

 

[ButchPlz]

I think when that economic fall happens, its going to happen the world over. either china taking down the rest of the world, or the rest of the world taking down China, take your pick.

I think that is why you have seen them begin investing in countries the world over with the type of deals that would make our sleaziest nation building look pure. they are diversifying outside of China in important geographic areas. I don't think any, or even all of it, is enough to "save" current China, but I think they have put themselves in a far better situation that they otherwise would be.

go look at the wiki for the Belt and Road Initiative if you need to see how far reaching that are being. the silk road part of that is clearly set up to minimize/reduce their dependance on sea trade. sea trade is always going to be the most efficient, but they are making sure they have a reliable back up.

I have mountains of stories of what they do to some of these countries. Mountains. It's been a part of my job the last decade to observe and (resource-poorly) try to combat China in this. In all his wild cuts Trump has abandoned the one area of foreign "aid" we ought to be doing, which is getting countries sophisticated enough in procurement and investment to ditch the empty promises of Belt and Road- because then, they'll turn to us. This is where the right is shortsighted and idiotic.

To their credit, though, the morons on the left will rail and rant against American "imperialism" and how we "enslave" people (or how they themselves are wage slaves or whatever) from their Chinese-made phones and computers while those same Chinese are enslaving entire populations, sometimes literally but also with wage suppression and through debt and bad contracts. But that's all A-OK.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

You aren't really having any good faith discussions with anyone. All I see are drive-by posts that have nothing to do with this got dayum thread. It has already been established that Trump is a big blowhard.

This may come as a surprise to you, but I have a life outside of this board. I live in the actual world, where I interact with real people. Next time I post, I will tag you so that you get the attention that you're lacking. @PEPPERJAX