Trump Ignores the Courts

#1,254
#1,254
McDad said:
Really??? You cannot say someone who is here against the law is illegally here?
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If they're here illegally then they're here illegally but that determination must be made under legal due process. It's not up to you, me, or ICE, etc. to make that call.
 
#1,255
#1,255
EasternVol said:
If they're here illegally then they're here illegally but that determination must be made under legal due process. It's not up to you, me, or ICE, etc. to make that call.
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Ok. This is progress. You're at least capable of saying someone is illegal.

Are those here illegally guilty of being here illegally or innocent of that crime?
 
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#1,258
#1,258
EasternVol said:
Their home will accept them per the news.
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There was several handfuls of people working on construction jobs in a 2 mile radius of my house. It's both obvious and sad how those jobs have seemingly come to a halt. These people working construction wanted to make the USA their home, because that's exactly why we were established. They had a better life here. These people looked excited after getting their daily cash pay buying the ingredients to the delicious supper they were going to make. None of these individuals were here, breaking the law other than being here without any thing other than maybe an expired green card
 
#1,259
#1,259
McDad said:
Ok. This is progress. You're at least capable of saying someone is illegal.

Are those here illegally guilty of being here illegally or innocent of that crime?
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Me being capable of saying someone is illegal goes back many years.
Let's dispense with the game of twenty questions. What is your point?
 
#1,260
#1,260
EasternVol said:
Me being capable of saying someone is illegal goes back many years.
Let's dispense with the game of twenty questions. What is your point?
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It's not a game. You said innocence or guilt is determined by a court or judge.

I am asking you, now that you say people can be here illegally, if those people are guilty or innocent?

"If not courts, who decides guilt or innocence?"
 
#1,263
#1,263
McDad said:
It's not a game. You said innocence or guilt is determined by a court or judge.

I am asking you, now that you say people can be here illegally, if those people are guilty or innocent?

"If not courts, who decides guilt or innocence?"
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The process involves an immigration judge to the best of my knowledge.
 
#1,269
#1,269
Hey @EasternVol, I thought of another situation.
A man breaks into your house. You defend with a gun shown, but not fired. He shoots at you but misses. You return fire and kill him. The dead man cannot be found guilty or innocent because corpses don't stand trial.
Is it possible you killed an innocent man?
 
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#1,270
#1,270
McDad said:
You don't know if someone here illegally is guilty or innocent?
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I know that if someone murders someone that they're guilty of murder. But we have trials, don't we? Because someone thought to be a murderer may have acted in self defense, or be guilty of manslaughter or another lesser charge and not murder. The same with immigration I suppose; what appears clear cut to a layman may well not be.
 
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#1,271
#1,271
McDad said:
Hey @EasternVol, I thought of another situation.
A man breaks into your house. You defend with a gun shown, but not fired. He shoots at you but misses. You return fire and kill him. The dead man cannot be found guilty or innocent because corpses don't stand trial.
Is it possible you killed an innocent man?
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What are your what ifs if I say no, or yes?
 
#1,272
#1,272
EasternVol said:
I know that if someone murders someone that they're guilty of murder. But we have trials, don't we? Because someone thought to be a murderer may have acted in self defense, or be guilty of manslaughter or another lesser charge and not murder. The same with immigration I suppose; what appears clear cut to a layman may well not be.
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I agree with this premise. No doubt there are cases which need judicial assessment. I referenced Elian Gonzales yesterday as such a case.
I also think we can reasonably say there are cases which need no involvement from a court.
To tie off the convo we had, if you can judge illegality and guilt and you're neither a court nor a judge, the answer to your original question[If not courts, who decides guilt or innocence?] we all do.
 
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#1,273
#1,273
EasternVol said:
Why El Salvador? On the surface it looks like a Bidenesque kickback scheme. I'd like to see a good report on how we ended up with that particular solution.
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Probably one of the few willing to accept unwanted foreign nationals.

Probably like the word being on the street that “you’ll get sent to El Salvador”, if caught, having a chilling effect.
 
#1,275
#1,275
McDad said:
I agree with this premise. No doubt there are cases which need judicial assessment. I referenced Elian Gonzales yesterday as such a case.
I also think we can reasonably say there are cases which need no involvement from a court.
To tie off the convo we had, if you can judge illegality and guilt and you're neither a court or a judge, the answer to your original question[If not courts, who decides guilt or innocence?] we all do.
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If we all do then the jury poll would take forever. Better to use a judge.
 
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