Recruiting Football Talk VIII

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#106,952
#106,952
Ace said:
The same receivers that have struggled in the last two years (Squirrel, Keyton, Bru) thrived with HH. Receivers are open, but you have to get the ball to them. HH was excellent at running this offense fast and creating mismatches.
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Bru got his leg broken in two, LOL.

Squirrel played with one arm.

Keyton could only catch most ridiculous circus throws. Couldnt catch a cold otherwise, its exact same in NFL.

Listen, im on record as being a huge critic of offense. Play calling is not dynamic. Golesh is dynamic. He finds the mismatch. Ive watched USF, there is motion.

HH was a fifth year Sr. 5 years of reading, watching, studying. He was a pro playing in college. He threw an accurate, catchable ball. He also made better decisions, under durress.

Here are the facts, as they pertain to 2025.

Halzle was Hendon's QB coach.
Teams weren't prepared for tempo.
Defenses are now more prepared with 5 DB's to defend our offense.
Nico is a rising soph.
We didn't run tempo near as much or as effectively in either season.
Hyatt was a first rounder, and biletnekoff winner

I saw Syracuse complete five passes over the top last night. Watched USF use motion to come back and win in 5OT.

Teams simply dared us to beat them over the top. We dont have any one to stretch the field. forcing tn to run knowing OL was a struggle. its a shame with DS we weren't able to:

1- take advantage with DS, like OSU and rip off chunks underneath, with RB.
2- use big bodied rec in middle
3- force teams to pay for disrespecting us by not lauding the box.

no wr- no way to stretch the field. lack of talent = lack of points. couldn't line up and even consistently win against lesser teams, like ark.

some of that was a frosh qb. some of it was absolutely being hamstrung talent wise.

sort of all over the place here. but you get my points.
 
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#106,953
#106,953
Ace said:
The same receivers that have struggled in the last two years (Squirrel, Keyton, Bru) thrived with HH. Receivers are open, but you have to get the ball to them. HH was excellent at running this offense fast and creating mismatches.
Click to expand...
Logically speaking it does seem pretty unlikely that Heupel forgot how to call plays and scheme. He’s been a head coach for a while now and before that was an elite offensive coordinator. He’s been successful every where he’s been. Typically elite minds like him don’t go vanilla unless they have to because the quarterback doesn’t process fast enough and is struggling to make the right reads. That would be my layman guess but I am not positive. I just know that Heupel has earned the benefit of the doubt and still managed to win 10 games and qualify for the playoffs. That’s what good coaches do. They learn to win in different ways. But know doubt it was much more entertaining watching that 22 team put up video game numbers with Hooker.
 
#106,954
#106,954
Daddy pants said:
Kitselman was open most of the game. They would have been short gains but Nico never looked his way. It was driving me crazy because he kept trying to force it into coverage. Take what the defense gives you!
Nico has phenomenal arm talent and is a tremendous competitor. But his pre-snap and post-snap processing are slow.
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like i said the other day- TE seems to be the #4 or 5 look and by that time its way to late and nico has to run or throw the ball away. maybe sometimes have the TE as the #2 look. even if its for short yardage- at least let them try to make yac.
 
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#106,955
#106,955
dmwvol12 said:
Logically speaking it does seem pretty unlikely that Heupel forgot how to call plays and scheme. He’s been a head coach for a while now and before that was an elite offensive coordinator. He’s been successful every where he’s been. Typically elite minds like him don’t go vanilla unless they have to because the quarterback doesn’t process fast enough and is struggling to make the right reads. That would be my layman guess but I am not positive. I just know that Heupel has earned the benefit of the doubt and still managed to win 10 games and qualify for the playoffs. That’s what good coaches do. They learn to win in different ways. But know doubt it was much more entertaining watching that 22 team put up video game numbers with Hooker.
Click to expand...
The biggest issue Heupel has with his offense comparing it to 22 when he was most creative. He had an amazing o line that could pass block for days and give Hooker a Clean pocket/run block effectively. Plus had a WR room that was miles better than the room this year. We all hate it cause our offense is so vanilla, but he schemed this sorry talented offense matched with a great defense to a 10-3 szn with a cfp appearance. Without a great o line Nico will never have time to read (process) adequately.
 
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#106,957
#106,957
dmwvol12 said:
Logically speaking it does seem pretty unlikely that Heupel forgot how to call plays and scheme. He’s been a head coach for a while now and before that was an elite offensive coordinator. He’s been successful every where he’s been. Typically elite minds like him don’t go vanilla unless they have to because the quarterback doesn’t process fast enough and is struggling to make the right reads. That would be my layman guess but I am not positive. I just know that Heupel has earned the benefit of the doubt and still managed to win 10 games and qualify for the playoffs. That’s what good coaches do. They learn to win in different ways. But know doubt it was much more entertaining watching that 22 team put up video game numbers with Hooker.
Click to expand...
he clearly modified to his strengths this year. sign of a good coach. still had a 1450 yard rusher, and win 10 games.

that said, if you are basically letting DC and OC be GM type roles. where is the Halzle criticism? Banks has done what is necessary to get faster, and longer.

Does Joey have that ability to walk in a room and assert himself?
 
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#106,959
#106,959
Jackcrevol said:
Bru got his leg broken in two, LOL.

Squirrel played with one arm.

Keyton could only catch most ridiculous circus throws. Couldnt catch a cold otherwise, its exact same in NFL.

Listen, im on record as being a huge critic of offense. Play calling is not dynamic. Golesh is dynamic. He finds the mismatch. Ive watched USF, there is motion.

HH was a fifth year Sr. 5 years of reading, watching, studying. He was a pro playing in college. He threw an accurate, catchable ball. He also made better decisions, under durress.

Here are the facts, as they pertain to 2025.

Halzle was Hendon's QB coach.
Teams weren't prepared for tempo.
Defenses are now more prepared with 5 DB's to defend our offense.
Nico is a rising soph.
We didn't run tempo near as much or as effectively in either season.
Hyatt was a first rounder, and biletnekoff winner

I saw Syracuse complete five passes over the top last night. Watched USF use motion to come back and win in 5OT.

Teams simply dared us to beat them over the top. We dont have any one to stretch the field. forcing tn to run knowing OL was a struggle. its a shame with DS we weren't able to:

1- take advantage with DS, like OSU and rip off chunks underneath, with RB.
2- use big bodied rec in middle
3- force teams to pay for disrespecting us by not lauding the box.

no wr- no way to stretch the field. lack of talent = lack of points. couldn't line up and even consistently win against lesser teams, like ark.

some of that was a frosh qb. some of it was absolutely being hamstrung talent wise.

sort of all over the place here. but you get my points.
Click to expand...
All legit points, but strategically what bothers me is that our coaches invested a lot of effort and $ into assembling a very experienced OL that yielded all the above. How do you not only mis-evaluate what they are gonna give you, but also not see the tell tale signs in spring and fall practice so that you understand you are gonna have to scheme your way to some success. It's like we either didn't perceive our limitations or we thought the only solution was to expect the defense to hold every oppotent under 15 points.

I get all the extenuating circumstances, but how they reacted is what concerns me.
 
#106,960
#106,960
Jackcrevol said:
Bru got his leg broken in two, LOL.

Squirrel played with one arm.

Keyton could only catch most ridiculous circus throws. Couldnt catch a cold otherwise, its exact same in NFL.

Listen, im on record as being a huge critic of offense. Play calling is not dynamic. Golesh is dynamic. He finds the mismatch. Ive watched USF, there is motion.

HH was a fifth year Sr. 5 years of reading, watching, studying. He was a pro playing in college. He threw an accurate, catchable ball. He also made better decisions, under durress.

Here are the facts, as they pertain to 2025.

Halzle was Hendon's QB coach.
Teams weren't prepared for tempo.
Defenses are now more prepared with 5 DB's to defend our offense.
Nico is a rising soph.
We didn't run tempo near as much or as effectively in either season.
Hyatt was a first rounder, and biletnekoff winner

I saw Syracuse complete five passes over the top last night. Watched USF use motion to come back and win in 5OT.

Teams simply dared us to beat them over the top. We dont have any one to stretch the field. forcing tn to run knowing OL was a struggle. its a shame with DS we weren't able to:

1- take advantage with DS, like OSU and rip off chunks underneath, with RB.
2- use big bodied rec in middle
3- force teams to pay for disrespecting us by not lauding the box.

no wr- no way to stretch the field. lack of talent = lack of points. couldn't line up and even consistently win against lesser teams, like ark.

some of that was a frosh qb. some of it was absolutely being hamstrung talent wise.

sort of all over the place here. but you get my points.
Click to expand...
We need to stretch the field horizontally just as much as we do vertically. Idk why the didint try to motion our WRs on some flat routes like Ohio State did to us this year. Would’ve helped with our mid o line and getting Nico in a rhythm. The far as hell wr screen passes suck.
 
#106,961
#106,961
Isn’t it a sign that the coaches who we are always trying to get transfers in to play are the ones that need to be looked at for an upgrade? OL, WR’s, DB’s. Doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of development or recruiting issues. CWM DB group looked good this year with McCoy (transfer) & Gibson, Brooks, Boo, but is that because of an upgrade in talent or the DL getting pressure? I thought the WR room was a strength but it ended up being just ok. Bru, Thornton and Brazzell were all transfers. White was no better this year than 2 years ago. Where is Pope’s development? The OL has been ok, but exposed against the top talented teams. Elarbee has been ok and our ground game has been excellent, but there is something about that group that’s not great. Is it development or recruiting or both?
 
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#106,963
#106,963
Jackcrevol said:
he clearly modified to his strengths this year. sign of a good coach. still had a 1450 yard rusher, and win 10 games.

that said, if you are basically letting DC and OC be GM type roles. where is the Halzle criticism? Banks has done what is necessary to get faster, and longer.

Does Joey have that ability to walk in a room and assert himself?
Click to expand...
I have no idea about Halzle but I firmly believe it’s Heupels offense. It’s just hard to know watching on TV. Like most things it’s usually a combination of many factors. I have my opinions but that’s all they are. Heupel has forgotten more than all of us combined so I will let him figure it out.
 
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#106,965
#106,965
ForMyLosses said:
The biggest issue Heupel has with his offense comparing it to 22 when he was most creative. He had an amazing o line that could pass block for days and give Hooker a Clean pocket/run block effectively. Plus had a WR room that was miles better than the room this year. We all hate it cause our offense is so vanilla, but he schemed this sorry talented offense matched with a great defense to a 10-3 szn with a cfp appearance. Without a great o line Nico will never have time to read (process) adequately.
Click to expand...
This👆👍
 
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#106,969
#106,969
MetalVolunteer said:
That’s the main thing people are talking about. It’s not depth, talent gap, NIL, it’s play calling and the use of what seems like the same 12-15 plays.

You can overcome talent gaps with scheme a lot of times. But for some reason this year and last, play calling has been a huge question mark.

Going to have to get back to doing what CH does best and that’s finds mismatch’s.

Seems like everyone wasn’t on the same page this year and last and that could be attributed to not having the right personnel, but that ultimately falls on the coaches to find that chemistry. If you don’t have the talent in certain groups you can overcome some of those deficiencies with schemes.

Honestly I don’t know what the problem has been the last two years. Did we have more talent in ‘22 compared to ‘23/24? Some will say NO, some will say yes.

Is that attributable to lack of development?

Regardless of what everyone’s response is or opinions we have still won a lot of games.

Anyways, this is my current situation. Y’all enjoy your weekend. I’m gonna try and do the same. View attachment 709890
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this, its fair criticism. Good post...enjoy that clear water, never know when you will make it back.

I would like to add this:

How different does this offense and season look if Nico didnt have a 3 game stretch where he overthrew about 2 wide open TDs per game by 5 yards? He got it together in the Bama game, but the 3 prior were rough.

How much difference does our offense look if the WRs didnt drop balls deep down the field? They were bottom 10 in FBS from what was posted here recently in drops AND getting separation. Nimrod dropped 2TDs himself vs Arkansas.

If these 2 things above were just cut in half...half as many drops on deep balls/TDs...half as many Nico overthrew by 5 yards...we are definitely 11-1. Home playoff game. Sitting at 12-1 right now after a win over SMU or IND. Totally different season. This offense is built on running the ball and explosive deep passes. We failed miserably on explosive plays and were 1 of the worst in the SEC.

Some of the issues were scheme/playcalling for sure. Bet the coaches would tell you that. A lot of them were jist simply guys not executing what the 22 and 23 teams DID execute: completing those deep balls/TDs when we actually DO have guys wide open streaking down the field. Its honestly impressive that we were able to win 10 games without explosive plays. You are 100% correct in what SEC teams are gonna do against us until we prove we can beat it: concede the run and try to stop it with 6 or 7 in the box...while using safeties/Nickle to try and make sure we cannot throw it over their heads. We will have to beat this to win games. There are plays designed to beat EVERY defense though. Cover 2, Cover 3, Dime...it doesnt matter. Its on the coaches to call the right plays, and players to execute. Theres a reason we gutted the WR room in the last couple weeks though.
 
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#106,970
#106,970
marcusluvsvols said:
I agree with all of this, its fair criticism. Good post...enjoy that clear water, never know when you will make it back.

I would like to add this:

How different does this offense and season look if Nico didnt have a 3 game stretch where he overthrew about 2 wide open TDs per game by 5 yards? He got it together in the Bama game, but the 3 prior were rough.

How much difference does our offense look if the WRs didnt drop balls deep down the field? They were bottom 10 in FBS from what was posted here recently in drops AND getting separation. Nimrod dropped 2TDs himself vs Arkansas.

If these 2 things above were just cut in half...half as many drops on deep balls/TDs...half as many Nico overthrew by 5 yards...we are definitely 11-1. Home playoff game. Sitting at 12-1 right now after a win over SMU or IND. Totally different season. This offense is built on running the ball and explosive deep passes. We failed miserably on explosive plays and were 1 of the worst in the SEC.

Some of the issues were scheme/playcalling for sure. Bet the coaches would tell you that. A lot of them were jist simply guys not executing what the 22 and 23 teams DID execute: completing those deep balls/TDs when we actually DO have guys wide open streaking down the field. Its honestly impressive that we were able to win 10 games without explosive plays. You are 100% correct in what SEC teams are gonna do against us until we prove we can beat it: concede the run and try to stop it with 6 or 7 in the box...while using safeties/Nickle to try and make sure we cannot throw it over their heads. We will have to beat this to win games. There are plays designed to beat EVERY defense though. Cover 2, Cover 3, Dime...it doesnt matter. Its on the coaches to call the right plays, and players to execute. Theres a reason we gutted the WR room in the last couple weeks though.
Click to expand...

No he missed at least 2 deep shots with overthrows vs Bama too. He just put it together with everything else in the 2H.

We should’ve beaten Bama by about 3 TDs.

And I agree if he hits those and WRs actually catch the ball when he puts it on them then the offense looks WAY different.
 
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#106,971
#106,971
Jackcrevol said:
he clearly modified to his strengths this year. sign of a good coach. still had a 1450 yard rusher, and win 10 games.

that said, if you are basically letting DC and OC be GM type roles. where is the Halzle criticism? Banks has done what is necessary to get faster, and longer.

Does Joey have that ability to walk in a room and assert himself?
Click to expand...
This is why I would love to know exactly how the offense is ran between Heuple & Halzle.
 
#106,972
#106,972
ForMyLosses said:
The biggest issue Heupel has with his offense comparing it to 22 when he was most creative. He had an amazing o line that could pass block for days and give Hooker a Clean pocket/run block effectively. Plus had a WR room that was miles better than the room this year. We all hate it cause our offense is so vanilla, but he schemed this sorry talented offense matched with a great defense to a 10-3 szn with a cfp appearance. Without a great o line Nico will never have time to read (process) adequately.
Click to expand...
aplausos-clapped.gif


Amen!
 
#106,975
#106,975
Happy Saturday

December 28, 2024: You will find ways to solve problems that have plagued you for a while. It will most likely be something simple that you have not thought about until now, but it will be efficient and effective. Matthew 7:7-8 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
 
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