War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

Even militaries that lack the benefit of STEM graduates designing and building next-gen weapons systems?

Because, according to Ras, our current military technology sector is filled with SPED graduates still using crayons and licking the windows.

based on how concentrated they have become just to take on Ukraine, I wouldn't expect them to be able to hold up against the SPEDs across an entire NATO border.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Is it a good idea for the Ukraine to be promoting this status? I have always been confused by this.

 

[LouderVol]

Is it a good idea for the Ukraine to be promoting this status? I have always been confused by this.

why?

because its not accurate?

 

[LSU-SIU]

why?

because its not accurate?

Because if they are promoting it is accurate. They should be to Moscow by the weekend because literally they doubled tank losses the Russians have in total.

Cool they're winning, have a nice life Ukrainians and enjoy your sovereignty.

 

[Grand Vol]

Is it a good idea for the Ukraine to be promoting this status? I have always been confused by this.

I have serious doubts in the veracity of the numbers. First off, the info is coming from Kiev and they are going to inflate everything.

Or do we trust Russia... no, never mind.

Bad idea to be trusting either side of the equation here for "official" numbers. I don't anyone truly knows who and what has been lost.

 

[Grand Vol]

why?

because its not accurate?

I have my doubts on the info we get from either side...

 

[LSU-SIU]

I have serious doubts in the veracity of the numbers. First off, the info is coming from Kiev and they are going to inflate everything.

Or do we trust Russia... no, never mind.

Bad idea to be trusting either side of the equation here for "official" numbers. I don't anyone truly knows who and what has been lost.

I take it the other way, believe the Ukraine. They clearly don't need help. We're way past the time that the propaganda eats itself. As I said, do they actually believe doing this helps?

Why shouldn't I believe them, they're the big ass sovereign nation?

 

[Grand Vol]

I take it the other way, believe the Ukraine. They clearly don't need help. We're way past the time that the propaganda eats itself. As I said, do they actually believe doing this helps?

Why shouldn't I believe them, they're the big ass sovereign nation?

How about believe neither?

Furthermore, look deeper into why the Ukrainian military was at a lack of weapons when this first started. Look into who had them destroy stockpiles of weapons and ammo way before this even became a thing. (Prior to 2014 even)

 

[LSU-SIU]

How about believe neither?

Furthermore, look deeper into why the Ukrainian military was at a lack of weapons when this first started. Look into who had them destroy stockpiles of weapons and ammo way before this even became a thing. (Prior to 2014 even)

Why shouldn't I believe them? Shouldn't I be concerned as to why they need my money? If you have destroyed the Russian military with such ease, shouldn't they be sending some of money we sent them back?

Obviously they don't need anything. They're kicking ass like Rambo. I say carry on, enjoy the fruits of their victory.

This thing (whatever you want to call it) is 10 times the cringe of the Iraqi, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Vietnam, etc. stuff. I'm thinking it really shouldn't cost to much money to beat a bunch of orcs with shovels but that is just me.

 

[Grand Vol]

Why shouldn't I believe them? Shouldn't I be concerned as to why they need my money? If you have destroyed the Russian military with such ease, shouldn't they be sending some of money we sent them back?

Obviously they don't need anything. They're kicking ass like Rambo. I say carry on, enjoy the fruits of their victory.

This thing (whatever you want to call it) is 10 times the cringe of the Iraqi, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Vietnam, etc. stuff. I'm thinking it really shouldn't cost to much money to beat a bunch of orcs with shovels but that is just me.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

I do not support sending another dime to Ukraine until they make a concerted effort to mobilize the country into defeating the invasion. Right now, they are only conscripting 27 year olds? And maybe they'll drop that age to 25 soon?

I read somewhere the average age on the front lines for Ukraine is like 43. You mean to tell me they've run out of military aged personnel in their "prime?"

Nope...

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.

www.politico.eu

Now, I abhor the invasion Russia started. I also abhor sending untraceable money to Ukraine that seems to be never ending. And I certainly abhor the politicians here pushing for increased funds.

Wonder how many MIC stocks they own?

Time for the EU to take care of it. We've got our own problems here and can't afford to send anything else to be embezzled and sent back to greedy politicians.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

I do not support sending another dime to Ukraine until they make a concerted effort to mobilize the country into defeating the invasion. Right now, they are only conscripting 27 year olds? And maybe they'll drop that age to 25 soon?

I read somewhere the average age on the front lines for Ukraine is like 43. You mean to tell me they've run out of military aged personnel in their "prime?"

Nope...

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.

www.politico.eu

Now, I abhor the invasion Russia started. I also abhor sending untraceable money to Ukraine that seems to be never ending. And I certainly abhor the politicians here pushing for increased funds.

Wonder how many MIC stocks they own?

Time for the EU to take care of it. We've got our own problems here and can't afford to send anything else to be embezzled and sent back to greedy politicians.

I know you don't, I didn't mean to imply it.

They can do some round ups with younger guys, but younger guys in today's world isn't all that great. The good troops are gone, the professional troops are probably mostly gone.

Are there more men they can keep streaming in there to take artillery, mortars, and FABs to the skull - sure, which I say this could take some time. They won't be trained, they'll probably surrender in mass, etc. and you are dealing with millennials with little to no skills... but who cares they can take a shell right in the head or can fly a drone. Just like the mentally handicap people they got out there. The guy with down syndrome I just saw newer video of him and he appears to be still alive.

 

[Grand Vol]

Just in case anyone was wondering why Ukraine was defenseless...

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_79035.htm?selectedLocale=en

When Obama Left Ukraine Defenseless | National Review

I remain convinced that Obama would not arm Ukraine because, as a senator, he had spearheaded the congressional effort to disarm Ukraine.

www.nationalreview.com

Senator Obama pushed to destroy massive arms, ammo caches in Ukraine

Massive caches of ammunition and shoulder-fired missiles got the axe over freshman Senator Obama's terrorism fears, but could have helped the Ukrainian military today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Obama, Lugar and W. Bush responsible for pushing Ukraine to disarm.

 

[Grand Vol]

I know you don't, I didn't mean to imply it.

They can do some round ups with younger guys, but younger guys in today's world isn't all that great. The good troops are gone, the professional troops are probably mostly gone.

Are there more men they can keep streaming in there to take artillery, mortars, and FABs to the skull - sure, which I say this could take some time. They won't be trained, they'll probably surrender in mass, etc. and you are dealing with millennials with little to no skills... but who cares they can take a shell right in the head or can fly a drone. Just like the mentally handicap people they got out there. The guy with down syndrome I just saw newer video of him and he appears to be still alive.

You have to ask why the war has suddenly become unpopular after the very patriotic push in the beginning...

 

[LouderVol]

Because if they are promoting it is accurate. They should be to Moscow by the weekend because literally they doubled tank losses the Russians have in total.

Cool they're winning, have a nice life Ukrainians and enjoy your sovereignty.

where does this say they are winning or give percentages?

losses don't need to be complete 100% losses. throw a track or damage a barrel and you have lost a tank to battlefield damage. but you can easily take that and repair it off the field of battle to return later. war makes it impossible to really know what a loss actually means.

Depending on what sources you believe, before the war the Russians had about 2k T80s, 5k t72s, and about 3k of T62/64s STOCKPILED. that is outside the 3k or so tanks they had in active duty. I have seen most estimates place their pre-war numbers at the lowest of 12k and all the way up to 18k. 7k losses wouldn't be double any real estimate of how many tanks Russia had that I have seen.

I can't really find any numbers for the T55s, but we know they are using them too and they weren't included in the pre-war estimates of Russian tank numbers.

and as Ras likes to point out the Russian juggernaut is able to build whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and however much it needs. so the losses really don't matter to Russia.

its a ledger. at least as presented here it is done so without any additional commentary or any real implications. all import of those numbers is derived by the user. As such I have no idea why people are so bothered with the simple presentation of information. at least not without something to provide better data or at least refute. I don't even think the guy who posts them generally comments on what they might mean.

 

[LouderVol]

I have my doubts on the info we get from either side...

right.

if you can't get accurate data, you at least want consistent data, if you are wanting to break down and study anything with any type of critical eye.

this has been the ONE consistent, and consistent doesn't mean correct, source I have seen from any side about either sides losses. it is the one constant thing people wanting to discuss matters COULD reference.

whatever fudge factor you want to assume on these numbers you can consistently apply to each time its presented. if you think its over estimated by 50% then Russia has lost 224,625 men. and if you want to go back and look at their past numbers you can assume the same 50% reduction, and you can do it in the future too.

 

[LSU-SIU]

where does this say they are winning or give percentages?

losses don't need to be complete 100% losses. throw a track or damage a barrel and you have lost a tank to battlefield damage. but you can easily take that and repair it off the field of battle to return later. war makes it impossible to really know what a loss actually means.

Depending on what sources you believe, before the war the Russians had about 2k T80s, 5k t72s, and about 3k of T62/64s STOCKPILED. that is outside the 3k or so tanks they had in active duty. I have seen most estimates place their pre-war numbers at the lowest of 12k and all the way up to 18k. 7k losses wouldn't be double any real estimate of how many tanks Russia had that I have seen.

I can't really find any numbers for the T55s, but we know they are using them too and they weren't included in the pre-war estimates of Russian tank numbers.

and as Ras likes to point out the Russian juggernaut is able to build whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and however much it needs. so the losses really don't matter to Russia.

its a ledger. at least as presented here it is done so without any additional commentary or any real implications. all import of those numbers is derived by the user. As such I have no idea why people are so bothered with the simple presentation of information. at least not without something to provide better data or at least refute. I don't even think the guy who posts them generally comments on what they might mean.

Because when you present numbers that are higher than the amount of inventory than obviously you are winning. I don't need someone to tell me they are winning when they are simply providing the numbers. They obviously don't need assistance.

Ukraine: We killed 150m Russians but we're not winning.

If someone is providing those numbers as truth than they are winning because the Ukraine certainly didn't lose even close that amount of equipment. Everyone is Rambo until they start to come looking for money or meat.

All of sudden the Ukraine is losing, news to me... they look like they are kicking ass. Maybe give them $100 billion they can go right across Russia and just take over China while they;re at it. I mean at this rate they can probably destroy all the tanks in the world in about 10 years. Why stop there, just take over North Korea... they can solve everything.

To be honest, the only number that is important is how many shovels the Russians have lost.

 

[Grand Vol]

right.

if you can't get accurate data, you at least want consistent data, if you are wanting to break down and study anything with any type of critical eye.

this has been the ONE consistent, and consistent doesn't mean correct, source I have seen from any side about either sides losses. it is the one constant thing people wanting to discuss matters COULD reference.

whatever fudge factor you want to assume on these numbers you can consistently apply to each time its presented. if you think its over estimated by 50% then Russia has lost 224,625 men. and if you want to go back and look at their past numbers you can assume the same 50% reduction, and you can do it in the future too.

Agree. The arbitrary 50% number you used as an example works, though I would honestly have said 10% myself.

The truth might never be known...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Furthermore, look deeper into why the Ukrainian military was at a lack of weapons when this first started. Look into who had them destroy stockpiles of weapons and ammo way before this even became a thing. (Prior to 2014 even)

???

I thought they had plenty of ammo and equipment. Obama was hesitant to send in arms but Trump shipped them weapons.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

I do not support sending another dime to Ukraine until they make a concerted effort to mobilize the country into defeating the invasion. Right now, they are only conscripting 27 year olds? And maybe they'll drop that age to 25 soon?

I read somewhere the average age on the front lines for Ukraine is like 43. You mean to tell me they've run out of military aged personnel in their "prime?"

Nope...

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.

www.politico.eu

Now, I abhor the invasion Russia started. I also abhor sending untraceable money to Ukraine that seems to be never ending. And I certainly abhor the politicians here pushing for increased funds.

Wonder how many MIC stocks they own?

Time for the EU to take care of it. We've got our own problems here and can't afford to send anything else to be embezzled and sent back to greedy politicians.

Throwing more meat into the grinder will not change the outcome. No mobilization or no amount of money will change the outcome... it will only delay it.

 

[BeardedVol]

???

I thought they had plenty of ammo and equipment. Obama was hesitant to send in arms but Trump shipped them weapons.

Wrong as usual.

$2.7 Billion total in military aid from 2014-2021, mostly in the form of training, small arms, and some javelin missile systems.

No significant hardware was transferred to Ukraine until Russia escalated the invasion in 2022.

U.S. Military Assistance to Ukraine • Stimson Center

As Russian troops mass on Ukraine’s eastern border, an overview of the short but substantial U.S. military aid relationship with Kyiv

www.stimson.org

 

[LSU-SIU]

Throwing more meat into the grinder will not change the outcome. No mobilization or no amount of money will change the outcome... it will only delay it.

The only thing of interest to me is to seeing the time for half-life on these towns/villages at this point... half-life appears to be going down for sure. Russia is now running up on some bigger cities (Kharkiv), it will be interesting to see if they continue the same play and how long it takes.

The other thing is Macron and the UK, it appears they might be putting a plan together to send troops in to takeover guarding the Belarus border, thereby freeing up Ukrainian units to go East. Of course, they (French troops) would become the new Abraham tank prize, the thought process is the United States would have to bail out the French. idk Other than that this seems kind of fruitless and boring.

Its really a simple question.

If the United States sends $60 billion to the Ukraine, what is going to help them and how is that help different than the other $60 billion+?

 

[dalton_vol]

I have serious doubts in the veracity of the numbers. First off, the info is coming from Kiev and they are going to inflate everything.

Or do we trust Russia... no, never mind.

Bad idea to be trusting either side of the equation here for "official" numbers. I don't anyone truly knows who and what has been lost.

You basically are trusting two governments that are both corrupt. The countries are different but the governments are essentially the same.

 

[Grand Vol]

???

I thought they had plenty of ammo and equipment. Obama was hesitant to send in arms but Trump shipped them weapons.

War in Ukraine

Even militaries that lack the benefit of STEM graduates designing and building next-gen weapons systems? Because, according to Ras, our current military technology sector is filled with SPED graduates still using crayons and licking the windows. based on how concentrated they have become just...

www.volnation.com

 

[dalton_vol]

You have to ask why the war has suddenly become unpopular after the very patriotic push in the beginning...

I would guess that ukraine is losing badly

 

[LSU-SIU]

You basically are trusting two governments that are both corrupt. The countries are different but the governments are essentially the same.

The United States is corrupt, the whole West is corrupt and a clown world. The issue here is Russia isn't telling the world lies to secure more taxpayer money from me.

What you do is admit that both sides are telling the truth because it doesn't matter. Ukraine is right, they are kicking ass and taking names like Rambo. If they want to sell it, I'm buying it. Problem solves itself.

Ukraine will keep on winning, we keep on winning by keeping our cash and they will soon start paying us back.