War in Ukraine

#76,776
#76,776
utvolpj said:
Except the only people saying it's an option are those with something to gain. You honestly think Putin attacks nato?
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He's said he was prepared to. But then again he said he wouldn't invade Ukraine. So not sure what that's worth.

I seriously doubt he would though. It would be destruction on a level no one wants.
 
#76,777
#76,777
volgr said:
Not likely. Russia will make the consequence for such action not worth it. Most Ukrainians are trying to get out of being mobilized. Those that are left dont want to fight Russia and will likely welcome a peace deal.
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You are more delusional than the Ukrainiacs.
 
#76,779
#76,779
volgr said:
Again, false. Ukraine did not start with very little. They had a good amount of Western equipment along with old Soviet equipment. Their soldiers were well trained as well.

Russia's Black Sea fleet has taken a hit but overall their ability to wage and sustain war is better than it has been in a long time.
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They started with less than they have now.

And while I think Russia has gained field experience they have taken large casualties and lost significant numbers of tanks and motorized equipment. They are weaker today than when they started this invasion I have no doubts there.
 
#76,781
#76,781
volgr said:
Not likely. Russia will make the consequence for such action not worth it. Most Ukrainians are trying to get out of being mobilized. Those that are left dont want to fight Russia and will likely welcome a peace deal.
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They can't prevent these attacks on their own soil....... In occupied territory?
 
#76,782
#76,782
volgr said:
Again, false. Ukraine did not start with very little. They had a good amount of Western equipment along with old Soviet equipment. Their soldiers were well trained as well.

Russia's Black Sea fleet has taken a hit but overall their ability to wage and sustain war is better than it has been in a long time.
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Lol, no they didn't. US aid to Ukraine from 2014-2021 was $2.5 billion and included very little military hardware outside of javelin missiles and small arms.

www.defense.gov

U.S., Ukraine Leaders Discuss Strategic Partnership During Pentagon Meeting

The United States will continue to urge Russia to end its illegal occupation of Ukraine's Crimea and looks to strengthen bonds with Ukraine, Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III said.
www.defense.gov
 
#76,785
#76,785
KB5252 said:
They started with less than they have now.

And while I think Russia has gained field experience they have taken large casualties and lost significant numbers of tanks and motorized equipment. They are weaker today than when they started this invasion I have no doubts there.
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They havent taken large casualties in comparison. They are replacing lost equipment as their economy has been converted into a war time economy. They are absolutely not weaker today. That is complete and total western propaganda.
 
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#76,786
#76,786
hog88 said:
Maybe you will finally answer my question.

How do you force tens of thousands of armed men to fight when they are within walking distance of home?
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Why are they surrending to Russian forces instead of "walking home"? (one reason, because they arent in walking distance, as you claim)
 
#76,787
#76,787
volgr said:
Why are they surrending to Russian forces instead of "walking home"? (one reason, because they arent in walking distance, as you claim)
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They fought until they were surrounded and left with no other option. If they didn't want to fight they would have left enmasse long before they had no choice but to surrender.

And yes, they are within walking distance to home through friendly territory.
 
#76,790
#76,790
hog88 said:
They fought until they were surrounded and left with no other option. If they didn't want to fight they would have left enmasse long before they had no choice but to surrender.

And yes, they are within walking distance to home through friendly territory.
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Most are a good few days walk from home, at best. And what happens to them when they are found to have deserted? What happens to their family? Your point is ridiculous.
 
#76,791
#76,791
volgr said:
Most are a good few days walk from home, at best. And what happens to them when they are found to have deserted? What happens to their family? Your point is ridiculous.
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There are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers, if the discontent is as bad as you say there is not a damn thing the government can do.
 
#76,792
#76,792
volgr said:
They havent taken large casualties in comparison. They are replacing lost equipment as their economy has been converted into a war time economy. They are absolutely not weaker today. That is complete and total western propaganda.
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I didn't believe the outlandish numbers either side has put forward but I can comfortably say based on what I know about sourcing, manufacturing and logistics that the kill/manufactured ratio would be slanted heavily to the killed side.


In a number of identifiable ways Russia is absolutely weaker.
 
#76,796
#76,796
WestTennesseeVol said:
Stopping aid to Ukraine doesn’t solve anything. That aid will just end up going to Poland and/or the Baltics later on, and we’ll be in the same situation just with Russians closer to American troops. “It’s not our business”…until it is.
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the Russians literally can't get closer. NATO has been touching Russia for a LONG time.

Before 2022 NATO and Russia shared 4 borders.
Since Finland joined we are up to 5 borders with Russia.
 
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#76,797
#76,797
LouderVol said:
the Russians literally can't get closer. NATO has been touching Russia for a LONG time.

Before 2022 NATO and Russia shared 4 borders.
Since Finland joined we are up to 5 borders with Russia.
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They are “literally” getting closer right now.

Also - big difference between sharing a border with Finland/the Baltics where our military presence is limited at best, and sharing a border with Poland, where we have a strong military presence.
 
#76,798
#76,798
volgr said:
Again, false. Ukraine did not start with very little. They had a good amount of Western equipment along with old Soviet equipment. Their soldiers were well trained as well.

Russia's Black Sea fleet has taken a hit but overall their ability to wage and sustain war is better than it has been in a long time.
Click to expand...
and what is Putin's key justification for needing Crimea? The same black sea fleet they can't protect from a nation without a navy. seems like it would be a lot better ROI for Russia to drop that dream. they are not only spending money on an ineffective navy, they are now spending lives and more money trying to keep that ineffective navy relevant.
 
#76,799
#76,799
WestTennesseeVol said:
They are “literally” getting closer right now.

Also - big difference between sharing a border with Finland/the Baltics where our military presence is limited at best, and sharing a border with Poland, where we have a strong military presence.
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not really. we would jump in and fight if any of those nations were attacked. doesn't matter where our men are based the moment the first Russian crosses the border.

Not sure if this is 100% true, but looking at a map Poland looks bigger than Latavia, Lithuania, and Estonia combined. also closer, better access, better infrastructure, and more space to operate in. for noncombat settings that is what you want.
 
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