2024 Presidential Race

[VOLS INC.]

Loading…

www.npr.org

Loading…

www.politico.com

Is John McCain Racist?

Author Irwin Tang talks about McCain's excessive use of the derogatory term 'gook', in his new book John McCain's Racism and Why it Matters.

www.thenation.com

McCain is race-baiting smartly

His ad campaign may be offensive, but that doesn't mean McCain's attacks won't work or shouldn't be responded to -- in kind -- by Obama.

www.salon.com

Racism is the only reason Obama might lose.

What with the Bush legacy of reckless war and economic mismanagement, 2008 is a year that favors the generic Democratic candidate over the generic...

slate.com

Their policy positions suck!! So they resort to identity politics. And they rely on the MSM every step of the way.

 

[luthervol]

Again, what are you talking about? What am I justifying?

Your whole proposition that Romney and McCain were vilified even remotely equally to Trump. That's 100% total nonsense and a complete copout.

Were Romney and McCain vilified by some on the democratic side? - absolutely. That has always been and always will be the case for any candidate for either party.

But 0.2% of the party saying it is not the same as 85% of the party saying it - and should never in any way shape or form be viewed as equivalent. It's simply asinine.

 

[luthervol]

Loading…

www.npr.org

Loading…

www.politico.com

Is John McCain Racist?

Author Irwin Tang talks about McCain's excessive use of the derogatory term 'gook', in his new book John McCain's Racism and Why it Matters.

www.thenation.com

McCain is race-baiting smartly

His ad campaign may be offensive, but that doesn't mean McCain's attacks won't work or shouldn't be responded to -- in kind -- by Obama.

www.salon.com

Racism is the only reason Obama might lose.

What with the Bush legacy of reckless war and economic mismanagement, 2008 is a year that favors the generic Democratic candidate over the generic...

slate.com

Their policy positions suck!! So they resort to identity politics. And they rely on the MSM every step of the way.

Do you think that proves anything? I certainly hope you are smarter than that.

 

[VOLS INC.]

Do you think that proves anything? I certainly hope you are smarter than that.

Proves? Of course not.

But it certainly supports the suggestion other posters, including myself, have made. That regardless who the Republican frontrunner for Prez is, they are accused (and sometimes quite strongly) of being racist, or sexist, or etc etc etc.

Again. Thats the democrat way. It’s how even black and latino Republican representatives can be accused of being white supremacist by white liberals. Y’all are masters at identity politics. Congrats.

 

[DC_Vol]

Your whole proposition that Romney and McCain were vilified even remotely equally to Trump. That's 100% total nonsense and a complete copout.

Were Romney and McCain vilified by some on the democratic side? - absolutely. That has always been and always will be the case for any candidate for either party.

But 0.2% of the party saying it is not the same as 85% of the party saying it - and should never in any way shape or form be viewed as equivalent. It's simply asinine.

I never mentioned Donald Trump or made any comparison to him, stated or implied. I simply observed how Romney and McCain’s character has improved over the years in the eyes of democrats. As I said before, it was an observation.

And a true one. It was said by so many people it was written about in Newsweek, the NYT, WaPo and so on.

I don’t view everything through the Donald Trump prism. Sorry to have gotten you all hot and bothered, Luth.

 

[turbovol]

This is classic Spray-Tan Con Man.

He used to boast of contributing lots of money to various charities. A Washington Post reporter spent a month contacting
them all. None had any record of a contribution from Spray-Tan man. None. Zero contributions. Fraudulent self-promotion
is the gangster's 24/7 MO. When he says something about himself, know that the opposite is actually the truth.

 

[luthervol]

Proves? Of course not.

But it certainly supports the suggestion other posters, including myself, have made. That regardless who the Republican frontrunner for Prez is, they are accused (and sometimes quite strongly) of being racist, or sexist, or etc etc etc.

Again. Thats the democrat way. It’s how even black and latino Republican representatives can be accused of being white supremacist by white liberals. Y’all are masters at identity politics. Congrats.

Please.
It's that way for both sides. It always has been and always will be that way for both sides.
That point has been agreed upon by everyone....I think.

But all of that really means.......if you can actually take a step back and clearly think about it......is that since it has always been done and will always be done by both sides, then it has to be judged by "how much", "how many", "whom".

 

[VOLS INC.]

Please.
It's that way for both sides. It always has been and always will be that way for both sides.
That point has been agreed upon by everyone....I think.

But all of that really means.......if you can actually take a step back and clearly think about it......is that since it has always been done and will always be done by both sides, then it has to be judged by "how much", "how many", "whom".

You are assuming I haven’t. I have. And I will continue to do so.

Here’s a fun game. Because you are always encouraging others to step back and evaluate their positions (As you typically assume they haven’t because if they did they would agree with you). When is the last time you took a step back, reevaluated your position, and admitted you were wrong in a public manner. Either to a group of people, social media, VNPF etc.


Here’s is your opportunity Luth. Practice what you preach.

 

[luthervol]

You are assuming I haven’t. I have. And I will continue to do so.

Here’s a fun game. Because you are always encouraging others to step back and evaluate their positions (As you typically assume they haven’t because if they did they would agree with you). When is the last time you took a step back, reevaluated your position, and admitted you were wrong in a public manner. Either to a group of people, social media, VNPF etc.


Here’s is your opportunity Luth. Practice what you preach.

Earlier today...........in this very thread.
I answered one way about the crossover vote.
Saw a post by Hog that made me step back and reconsider my earlier post.
And then went back and stated that I was amending my post because of what Hog had said.

 

[luthervol]

Luth, I’m not even sure what you are talking about. Your conclusion is I’m making an equivalency here when I’m simply observing.

I remember well the character attacks on Romney. I’m sorry you can’t grasp that I find it interesting he’s no longer talked about as a 1%er, a bully, a misogynist, etc. He’s now most often characterized as a principled voice of reason. Did he change in the last 10 years?

Yea, I may have been having to many conversations at once.
I can now see that your response was not an attempt to draw an equivalency with the vilification of Trump. Which is good, because there is no equivalency to be drawn - despite the best efforts of many in the PF.

So where does that leave us? Some dems vilified Romney and McCain? Of course. Some dems. look back on them in a much more favorable light? Of course. Doesn't really seem very interesting

 

[BreatheUT]

Who was the poster that used to get so agitated over people not calling that out?

He was center-left, pretty reasonable all in all. Very sarcastic. I always liked him.

If you’re out there bruh… That ^ was wrong.

I was really just joking because I've never used it before. I do get a small chuckle when I see it unexpectedly.

Somehow this topic came up when I was visiting some people a few weeks ago and it was noted no one has seen a single photo with child ever. I just think they look to much alike to give this topic any legs. It's still provides a chuckle when I happen upon the nickname unexpectedly given the stories about Barry.

 

[turbovol]

I never mentioned Donald Trump or made any comparison to him, stated or implied. I simply observed how Romney and McCain’s character has improved over the years in the eyes of democrats. As I said before, it was an observation.

And a true one. It was said by so many people it was written about in Newsweek, the NYT, WaPo and so on.

I don’t view everything through the Donald Trump prism. Sorry to have gotten you all hot and bothered, Luth.

You're curious as to why Romney and McCain hate Trump? Seriously?

Or are you curious that Democrats now pay attention to what they have to say about the gangster? Romney was criticized when he was
'the GOP nominee for being a rich guy out of touch with regular Americans. It was pretty standard campaign flak that Democrats have fired at GOP nominees over the years. Trump is an a category all his own that has almost nothing to do with policy. He's not just a horrible human being in every way, which should be obvious to an sentient human, he's also a guy who doesn't respect our laws, our institutions, our constitution. He wants to be an American autocrat and doesn't notice or care that we don't have autocrats in America. He tried to subvert an election and incited an attack on the U.S. Capitol that got people killed, including police officers. He is beyond the pale--so much so that legions of mainstream Republicans/conservatives are appalled by him, including Romney and McCain, as any decent person would be. The man is mentally ill and dangerous. His campaign appearances are scary--rambling, discursive nonsense, garbled sentences and a long string of lies.

 

[Orangeburst]

.

 

[whodeycin85]

Again, every presidential candidate in history has had distractors who exaggerate and try to portray them in the worst light possible. It can only ever be an issue of how many and how fervently.

There will be repubs who blast any democratic candidate in the worst possible way. That in no way means that every democratic candidate is equally worthy of being blasted.

Again, you guys with the whole equivalency thing - it's absolutely nuts.......but understandable. There is truly no other way a person trying to maintain any level of self-respect and dignity could justify supporting Trump.

What Trump policies did you have issue with???

 

[DC_Vol]

You're curious as to why Romney and McCain hate Trump? Seriously?

Or are you curious that Democrats now pay attention to what they have to say about the gangster? Romney was criticized when he was
'the GOP nominee for being a rich guy out of touch with regular Americans. It was pretty standard campaign flak that Democrats have fired at GOP nominees over the years. Trump is an a category all his own that has almost nothing to do with policy. He's not just a horrible human being in every way, which should be obvious to an sentient human, he's also a guy who doesn't respect our laws, our institutions, our constitution. He wants to be an American autocrat and doesn't notice or care that we don't have autocrats in America. He tried to subvert an election and incited an attack on the U.S. Capitol that got people killed, including police officers. He is beyond the pale--so much so that legions of mainstream Republicans/conservatives are appalled by him, including Romney and McCain, as any decent person would be. The man is mentally ill and dangerous. His campaign appearances are scary--rambling, discursive nonsense, garbled sentences and a long string of lies.

I never asked this question you seem to attribute to me: “You're curious as to why Romney and McCain hate Trump? Seriously?”

Again, I never mentioned Donald Trump but you and Luth seem to want to discuss him…a lot.

I simply made an observation that the out of touch misogynist seems to have improved his character over the last decade. Maybe he changed or everyone just forgot what a POS he was?

So election years I guess we can expect a lot of campaign flak but we shouldn’t take the character smears too serious?

 

[Grand Vol]

I simply observed how Romney and McCain’s character has improved over the years in the eyes of democrats. As I said before, it was an observation.

I think they have "improved" over the years because they were no longer a threat. Both shot their shots respectively and came up lacking in the end (I agree no Republican was going to win in 2008 and I think it was Mitt's "turn" in 2012 and everyone knew he wasn't going to win).

But big picture wise, they aren't a threat at the national level and I do think being anti-Trump did endear them to Democrats to an extent. Just like Tulsi Gabbard is endearing to conservatives for putting Hillary and Kamala on blast when she did, the left will soften on people that oppose what they despise.

More or less the enemy of my enemy saying on a political front.

 

[hog88]

I think they have "improved" over the years because they were no longer a threat. Both shot their shots respectively and came up lacking in the end (I agree no Republican was going to win in 2008 and I think it was Mitt's "turn" in 2012 and everyone knew he wasn't going to win).

But big picture wise, they aren't a threat at the national level and I do think being anti-Trump did endear them to Democrats to an extent. Just like Tulsi Gabbard is endearing to conservatives for putting Hillary and Kamala on blast when she did, the left will soften on people that oppose what they despise.

More or less the enemy of my enemy saying on a political front.

Romney had a great shot in 2012, he just pissed it away.

 

[DC_Vol]

I think they have "improved" over the years because they were no longer a threat. Both shot their shots respectively and came up lacking in the end (I agree no Republican was going to win in 2008 and I think it was Mitt's "turn" in 2012 and everyone knew he wasn't going to win).

But big picture wise, they aren't a threat at the national level and I do think being anti-Trump did endear them to Democrats to an extent. Just like Tulsi Gabbard is endearing to conservatives for putting Hillary and Kamala on blast when she did, the left will soften on people that oppose what they despise.

More or less the enemy of my enemy saying on a political front.

I guess…I would feel a little weird if I was accusing Tulsi of being a huge racist last year and this year was telling everyone how great she was. But maybe that just me.

 

[luthervol]

What Trump policies did you have issue with???

It's more about him being a horrendously despicable human and some liking him specifically for that reason.

Find a moderately decent human that has his same policies, and the public will find it much more palatable.
It's not an overly complicated position.

But Trumpers are all about the feelz that Trump gives them and hate the same policies when given by RINOs.

 

[Grand Vol]

Romney had a great shot in 2012, he just pissed it away.

I don't think he really did. I think Obama was doing well enough at the moment that people didn't feel like changing horses just for the sake of change. He didn't have any major issues (at least none that came to light) until his second term.

Romney was RINO and people weren't happy with him or his positions. He didn't offer anything new or helpful to the country. He was going to lose from the start and I think even the GOP knew it. They were betting on Jeb coming in hard in 2016...

Oops.

 

[whodeycin85]

It's more about him being a horrendously despicable human and some liking him specifically for that reason.

Find a moderately decent human that has his same policies, and the public will find it much more palatable.
It's not an overly complicated position.

But Trumpers are all about the feelz that Trump gives them and hate the same policies when given by RINOs.

So wait Trumpers are all about the feels. Even tho you just admitted you liked his polices but not his personality..correct

 

[luthervol]

I guess…I would feel a little weird if I was accusing Tulsi of being a huge racist last year and this year was telling everyone how great she was. But maybe that just me.

Exactly who said Romney or McCain was a racist and is now telling everyone how great they are?

 

[hog88]

I don't think he really did. I think Obama was doing well enough at the moment that people didn't feel like changing horses just for the sake of change. He didn't have any major issues (at least nine that came to light) until his second term.

Romney was RINO and people weren't happy with him or his positions. He didn't offer anything new or helpful to the country. He was going to lose from the start and I think even the GOP knew it. They were betting on Jeb coming in hard in 2016...

Oops.

I think Obama was ripe for the picking in 2012, the economy was stumbling along, Obamacare was unpopular and the delays were making things worse, I think a lot of people had the bad taste of GW out of their mouths and the novelty of "I voted for our first black president" had waned. Romney wiped the floor with Obama in the first debate then played the nutless wonder during and after the 2nd debate and it sunk his campaign. He couldn't generate any enthusiasm and actually turned a lot of people off.

 

[Grand Vol]

I guess…I would feel a little weird if I was accusing Tulsi of being a huge racist last year and this year was telling everyone how great she was. But maybe that just me.

Oh, make no mistake, I don't think the left is ever going to tell anyone how "great" McCain or Romney or Liz Cheney or Jeb Bush are or were. I certainly included those last two since those last names are sure to raise ire in most cases.

But they certainly do get applauded by the left for taking a stand against Trump and, again, not being a threat on the national stage any longer. They'll never run against the left on the national stage, hence, they aren't a threat any longer.

I do think McCain got a larger pass since he was "old school" and considered by most on the left and right to be a hero.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

There is, has, and always will be q segment that feels that way about any particular president.
The issue is the size and fervency of that segment.
Is it 2%, 5%, 10%, 25%, or 50%.

Trump was and continues to be rightfully fervently reviled by a larger percentage of people than any previous president.

You vastly underestimate how much people despise Diaper Dan.