Recruiting Football Talk VII

[jakez4ut]

I think if this leads to athletes being paid employees through a collective bargaining agreement, I could see this hurting women's sports and non-revenue men's sports. With title IX does that mean women and men would have to be paid the same? If so I could see dropping a bunch of sports. I mean sports like track amd field could easily go by the way side. Swimming as well. There are advantages to keeping the compensation outside of the University's purview (NIL).

I think if you do a revenue share that is dictated by an administrative body, you call still work under title 9. Nil, which should be market based valuation, then allows those that can demand top $$, can still get top $$. And you wouldn't necessarily need collective bargaining because of title 9. Everybody wins.... Money earned by the schools from tv deals and post season gets distributed back to the athletes, nil allows additional opportunities for those that are able. Over simplified, sure. But I think that's a place you can work from. ADs could them use booster money for facilities etc..

 

[DarthVol1]

I think if this leads to athletes being paid employees through a collective bargaining agreement, I could see this hurting women's sports and non-revenue men's sports. With title IX does that mean women and men would have to be paid the same? If so I could see dropping a bunch of sports. I mean sports like track amd field could easily go by the way side. Swimming as well. There are advantages to keeping the compensation outside of the University's purview (NIL).

I would agree. I have believed since day one of NIL that it combined with Title IX would lead to the end of non revenue sports as we know it now. Already have schools killing some programs.

 

[Gilbert]

I respectfully disagree. If we don’t get the injunction, and then the NCAA aggressively goes after Nico, and UT, while the case is pending,we would renew our request for the injunction, and in my opinion, have it granted because it would be irreparable harm to punish the athlete as far as eligibility and the institution while the case is pending. That’s not just about money.

No disagreement. I was referring to requesting the injunction again as UT fighting back. It’s just better to win now and not have Nico suspended at all (I know it probably doesn’t stick but we don’t want to go through all of that publicly). I can even see the NCAA giving Nico a free pass by leaving UT. Have to keep him and family on our side and confident in what we’re doing.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I didn't mean that you did. I just somehow went down a rabbit hole. I apologize for seeming to imply anything different. That's why I was laughing at myself and said "I don't know why I said all that" at the end of that post. I should have nuked everything after the first sentence. My bad. I knew that stuff about Welch because I had looked her up a couple of months ago when someone posted a photo of her.

It's a pretty name. You did well.

No...I understood, I was just conversating about it.

 

[JCVol00]

Ik this is VERY far fetched so dont clober me for asking this, but:

Im curious as to if the RO isnt granted next week/ the trial doesnt end well or it drags out and there is a risk Nico will be suspended, I wonder if we will pursue another qb in the Spring portal window

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

The whole key is winning next week. Don’t win, and the NCAA has the power and will likely target Nico. They ultimately wouldn’t win in the end, but they would get their pound of flesh from UT while the case is litigated over the next 1-2 years. Obviously UT would fight back but we really need to win next week.

Nico would sue immediately if they do...and I guarantee you he would get a injunction immediately.

 

[LA Vol]

Any insight into why that is? Speculation by several on here and other sites centers around the NCAA thinking we got off without much punishment regarding Pruitt and was pissed. Is that pretty much the sentiment from the powers that be?

Numerous reasons and they snowballed. UT's over-cooperation in the Pruitt investigation took LOIC off the table and UT did not expect a Failure to Monitor. Tacking that on and raising the fine at the end was a blindside-- and it was unappreciated. UT agreed to the penalties to end it, but instead of ending it, the NCAA ramped up the NIL investigation they had been backstaging for months. They kept digging and digging, bringing other marquee programs and other coaches' recruiting violations into the investigation. They tied it all together to make a case for LOIC and threatened UT with that, claiming multiple L1 and L2 violations in multiple programs. They were coming after UT, they were coming after the revenue sports and they were coming after Nico.

Not only do these alleged L1 and L2 violations reflect negatively on coaches that UT thinks very highly of, LOIC reflects directly on Chancellor Plowman and AD Danny White. The Pruitt violations were not on them nor on coaches that run clean programs, but these newer allegations put the blame squarely on the current leadership, alleging that they do not have institutional control.

UT has made a huge investment in running everything "the right way," and the chancellor has investigated internally and believes UT has self-reported all violations. The NCAA's claims and the way they have gone about everything makes it personally and highly offensive. They're calling people's character and integrity into question, and the chancellor, AD and president have made it clear how they feel about that. UT will fight and it will fight hard.

 

[pismonque]

Also missed out on seeing The Stones in Nov 89 and Pink Floyd in May 94 at GaTech for equally stupid reasons...of course those are way farther up the regret ladder than missing STP.

Hey, I was at that Stones show in '89! One of the Knoxville radio stations had some buses that ran down there for it and I hopped on one with some friends. Good time.

 

[smokeyz1]

If the injunction is not granted on the 13th the irreparable damage could be to the NCAA.

If we go a year while the case is being tried and later the case is settled in TN/VA favor. Since the players won’t be able to negotiate NIL prior to enrolling, then players could later sue the NCAA for back pay if they find another school would have paid them more NIL than their current school.

Absolutely could bankrupt the NCAA. NCAA May actually voluntarily not try to file NIL charges until case is settled for this reason.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

Anyone else notice something funny about the coverage of this story?
ESPN:


And now, the AP:

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I think if this leads to athletes being paid employees through a collective bargaining agreement, I could see this hurting women's sports and non-revenue men's sports. With title IX does that mean women and men would have to be paid the same? If so I could see dropping a bunch of sports. I mean sports like track amd field could easily go by the way side. Swimming as well. There are advantages to keeping the compensation outside of the University's purview (NIL).

Women's sports would have to show they are equal in value...a CBA usually includes a revenue sharing provision...women's BB and other sports don't make what men's football and basketball does.. so they're piece of the pie would be smaller. Why should women's BB players get paid what the men's football players do when they don't bring in a fraction of what it does? They are not worth as much money.

But who the hell knows? This is all stupid.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Hey, I was at that Stones show in '89! One of the Knoxville radio stations had some buses that ran down there for it and I hopped on one with some friends. Good time.

Me and the ex were offered free tickets close to the front from some friends...and we skipped for some dumb reason.

 

[BigSteve09]

 

[Devo182]

Agreed.

I think the spirit of NIL in the NCAA eyes was to pay current players who have produced on the field. I don't really disagree with that logic but the way they went about implementing NIL was dead ass backwards and frankly quite stupid.

The "spirit of NIL" in the eyes of the NCAA was...

They were forced to do it and never wanted and still don't. They're fine with vagueness, so they can say folks are ChEaTInG.

Sankey and his ilk want to get rid of it all and return to the unlawful "good ole days".

 

[pismonque]

Me and the ex were offered free tickets close to the front from some friends...and we skipped for some dumb reason.

That's too bad. I have a couple of those that I regret.

What's funny about that Stones show in '89 is I remember during the show thinking it was amazing that they were still going strong to be so damn old....

 

[ryan990]

In my career these are the two I'm most proud of. The one on the right I received today and the one on the left 7 years ago.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

Numerous reasons and they snowballed. UT's over-cooperation in the Pruitt investigation took LOIC off the table and UT did not expect a Failure to Monitor. Tacking that on and raising the fine at the end was a blindside-- and it was unappreciated. UT agreed to the penalties to end it, but instead of ending it, the NCAA ramped up the NIL investigation they had been backstaging for months. They kept digging and digging, bringing other marquee programs and other coaches' recruiting violations into the investigation. They tied it all together to make a case for LOIC and threatened UT with that, claiming multiple L1 and L2 violations in multiple programs. They were coming after UT, they were coming after the revenue sports and they were coming after Nico.

Not only do these alleged L1 and L2 violations reflect negatively on coaches that UT thinks very highly of, LOIC reflects directly on Chancellor Plowman and AD Danny White. The Pruitt violations were not on them nor on coaches that run clean programs, but these newer allegations put the blame squarely on the current leadership, alleging that they do not have institutional control.

UT has made a huge investment in running everything "the right way," and the chancellor has investigated internally and believes UT has self-reported all violations. The NCAA's claims and the way they have gone about everything makes it personally and highly offensive. They're calling people's character and integrity into question, and the chancellor, AD and president have made it clear how they feel about that. UT will fight and it will fight hard.

Man, I appreciate the thorough explanation here. There’s been a lot of chatter but no clear, consistent explanation. This clears up some of that fog and puts an even more emphasis on our need to fully support Plowman and White more than we as fans already are.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

That's too bad. I have a couple of those that I regret.

What's funny about that Stones show in '89 is I remember during the show thinking it was amazing that they were still going strong to be so damn old....

I procrastinated a LOT back in the day...I was young and thought I would see them or other bands some other time down the road.

I went to a lot of good shows and saw a lot of big bands and big solo artists..but I barely remember many of them because I was so wasted.

One thing I do remember is seeing Ted Nugent do Stranglehold when I was trippin really hard at Lakewood, and if you know the song it has this really groovy, really long guitar solo that Ted really rips it up on live...and they had all these dark purple and blue lights along with some blacklights come on while he was playing...I won't ever forget that..lol.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

Does it have to do with the time frame? There is no concern for irreparable harm between today and the 13th, so there is no need for a TRO?

IMO, Denying the TRO deals with showing irreparable harm between now and the 13th and the Injunction would be dealing with showing irreparable harm from the 13th until the conclusion of the case. That’s just a guess though one of the actual lawyers in here would have speak on that.

Either way, the irreparable harm part of this only applies to the TRO and the injunction, not the overall case from what I understand.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Ik this is VERY far fetched so dont clober me for asking this, but:

Im curious as to if the RO isnt granted next week/ the trial doesnt end well or it drags out and there is a risk Nico will be suspended, I wonder if we will pursue another qb in the Spring portal window

After thinking about things, I just don’t think the NCAA will likely press forward with anything as bold as they might have been contemplating. The ground has shifted under their feet a lot since Forde’s story came out.

What I think they’ll be happy to do is let the cloud hang over the program’s head. I was hoping the courts would help us out there, but help from them seems further on the horizon than I had hoped.

 

[volsagain]

Imagine if we had. . . everyone would be saying it was denied because of the idiot fans walking on the court.

I thought about driving by there today but didn't make it. I was just going by to see if there were any idiots causing a seen . Is there real conformation that it did happen. Think for all I've read it will all work out but may take a lot more time than we would like. GBO screw the aa.

 

[Orange.]

Who left the door open and let @DinkinFlicka in? If I find out youre being reported.





























(J/K @DinkinFlicka. Don't get all riled up.)

You lost me at "J/K."

 

[Orangeburst]

Forde hates our Ferrari

 

[JCVol00]

After thinking about things, I just don’t think the NCAA will likely press forward with anything as bold as they might have been contemplating. The ground has shifted under their feet a lot since Forde’s story came out.

What I think they’ll be happy to do is let the cloud hang over the program’s head. I was hoping the courts would help us out there, but help from them seems further on the horizon than I had hoped.

I would love it if both sides agreed on not pressing things forward as long as the NCAA agrees not to retroactively enforce and penalize things, basically say “ok these are the rules, anything broken after today is game on” type of thing

 

[Jimmy Football]

I thought about driving by there today but didn't make it. I was just going by to see if there were any idiots causing a seen . Is there real conformation that it did happen. Think for all I've read it will all work out but may take a lot more time than we would like. GBO screw the aa.

I wouldn’t go to federal court under any circumstances other than being summoned to appear.