Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

#69,226
#69,226
I broached this idea in the FF, yeah I know not many deep thinkers over there so I figured I'd post it here for the smart people to discuss.

With athletes now able to transfer once (twice if a graduate) without penalty I think we're seeing guys use the portal as free agency to shop for a better NIL deal. Starters from good teams with current NIL deals are jumping into the portal this cycle so my thought is to allow the collectives to sign 2-3 personal service contracts with these guys. They wouldn't be employees, they wouldn't be barred from using their free transfers, they would only be prohibited from signing another NIL deal with a different collective.

Right now that is against the NIL rules and I propose that be changed. I think it's going to get worse and without some form of contract the NIL system will be unsustainable long term. Donors/collective members will eventually tire of being held hostage every year by star players threatening to transfer if they don't get more money.
 
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#69,230
#69,230
McDad said:
Yes. But i test your temperament by lighlty pulling uour tail and ears. I look at your teeth. And i make you lay on your back to rub your belly.
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Do you feed people food? Do you have qualty meals or that dry Purina crap? Do I get bed space? Need to check these out or I may hit the portal for better deal.
 
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#69,231
#69,231
LouderVol said:
I think it will take an act of congress, but I think it gets really tricky because you have so many public universities. I think it will have to mimic the NFL with some form of anti-monopoly protection or something. Right now they are stuck in a middle ground, they aren't students, and they aren't employees. Not everyone will like it, but no answer is going to please everyone, so for me it has to be fair. and if the fair answer costs the NCAA/schools/students a lot of money from lost fan support they will have to live with that too.

I think the answer will be some form of binding contract. loyalty is a two way street, and the players were the last ones we expected to loyal. definitely didn't expect the coaches to be loyal, and universities have done plenty to throw the players under the bus. The NCAA is just an extension of the universities, so any beef with them goes back to the NCAA. Its another reason the P5 have talked about forming their own division, because the rest of the NCAA is holding the P5 from making some of the changes that would make things "fair".
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That's really the heart of the issue. Either you recognize players as students learning the subject and coaches are the teachers, or you recognize it as a professional program ... and it no longer fits within the university mold. This is like trying to redefine mercenaries as "not military" and qualifying them somehow as legitimate private for profit war mongers on a world stage ... a military capable of waging war but not actually accountable to the government.

Universities as research or medical programs directly tie back to educational purposes. Other than bringing money - for a very very limited number of schools, it's really hard to tie sports programs directly to any direct student oriented benefit. Football coaches and staff certainly don't teach the average student, and the average student isn't going to be using the equipment or facilities set aside for a football program. To that extent it's hard to say that players in major sports don't receive a whole lot of direct compensation not offered the rest of the student body.
 
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#69,232
#69,232
hog88 said:
I broached this idea in the FF, yeah I know not many deep thinkers over there so I figured I'd post it here for the smart people to discuss.

With athletes now able to transfer once (twice if a graduate) without penalty I think we're seeing guys use the portal as free agency to shop for a better NIL deal. Starters from good teams with current NIL deals are jumping into the portal this cycle so my thought is to allow the collectives to sign 2-3 personal service contracts with these guys. They wouldn't be employees, they wouldn't be barred from using their free transfers, they would only be prohibited from signing another NIL deal with a different collective.

Right now that is against the NIL rules and I propose that be changed. I think it's going to get worse and without some form of contract the NIL system will be unsustainable long term. Donors/collective members will eventually tire of being held hostage every year by star players threatening to transfer if they don't get more money.
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I see no one has opioned. Should not of predicated “smart people” if you wanted any of us to answer.
 
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#69,233
#69,233
Orangeburst said:
she has a collar..or have u already collared her? no tags or chip?
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Collar yes. We're taking her to the pound to get the chip checked...

And if there's no chip, she's coming back home with us.

And...

Apparently Sadie, Bella and Gypsy are the names leading the pack at the moment.

I kinda like Gypsy. That would be a cool dog name.

Just sayin...
 
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#69,234
#69,234
hog88 said:
I broached this idea in the FF, yeah I know not many deep thinkers over there so I figured I'd post it here for the smart people to discuss.

With athletes now able to transfer once (twice if a graduate) without penalty I think we're seeing guys use the portal as free agency to shop for a better NIL deal. Starters from good teams with current NIL deals are jumping into the portal this cycle so my thought is to allow the collectives to sign 2-3 personal service contracts with these guys. They wouldn't be employees, they wouldn't be barred from using their free transfers, they would only be prohibited from signing another NIL deal with a different collective.

Right now that is against the NIL rules and I propose that be changed. I think it's going to get worse and without some form of contract the NIL system will be unsustainable long term. Donors/collective members will eventually tire of being held hostage every year by star players threatening to transfer if they don't get more money.
Click to expand...

TN has a number of players in the portal right now. I'm not finding an article from a few days ago quoting Jack Luttrell (freshman 3 star who played on special teams a few times) as saying something like NIL isn't much good if you don't make any money from it. That seems to say players are coming in with unrealistic expectations. What amount of playing time and what worthy contribution would a three star HS recruit likely make on a major college team - contribution that would make his name, likeness, or image worth compensation? We could certainly use help in the defensive backfield. But a three star, 6', 180 lb guy who was playing HS football last year likely making a real contribution?
 
#69,235
#69,235
AM64 said:
Maybe in the end this is all about envy over coaching pay. Could be the answer to that is to acknowledge that coaches are like any other person teaching on campus and do some salary limits. Could also be that since stadiums and other facilities belong to the school then the money generated belongs to the school and not the athletic department. It simply seems that we are looking at this the wrong way ... instead of making sports and particularly football a professional thing and trying to fit it under the guise of collegiate sport we should be dialing it all back.

I get your point about an engineering student benefitting from something he creates, and likewise I have no problem with a football player receiving a benefit from NIL - as long as that is actually tied to some quantifiable number like the profit derived from sales of a product. That doesn't mean a picture on a cereal box with some unquantifiable "value". You can't really fix ticket cost by reducing cost because of supply and demand. I was at UT when the "activities fee" first came into being; and as I recall one of the tradeoffs was going to be more student tickets. Students still don't seem to benefit much from facilities reserved for athletes, and I can't really tell that student seating has expanded with enrollment.

When it's all said and done, most of the problems come back to TV. I'm happy the games are broadcast. The networks and the schools are happy for the revenue they generate, but we're well into the realm where outsiders are killing what used to work. I used to watch car racing religiously - listened to NASCAR on radio when TV broadcasting was virtually non existent. Got up in later years at weird times to watch a F1 race. I haven't watched a race in years because the stupid amounts of income turned racing stupid ... and insipid.

I simply don't see NIL as solving problems - at least not solving more problems than it causes.
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I agree. the problem was the sport's popularity and the money that came with it. all the things the fans want made it SO much bigger than they were.

You want to see every game? That adds money.
You want to get breakdown of plays and stats? that adds money.
You want to get multiple interviews and interactions from the coaches? That adds money.
You want your team to win? that adds money.
you aren't happy with a "decent" season anymore, and want your team to win titles? That adds money.
You want to fire a coach every 3/4 years looking for a quick fix? that adds money.
you want a Bama-esque dynasty and are willing to do whatever for it? That adds money.
Now if you want good recruits or to keep your players that adds money.

Ultimately all of that money comes from the fans.
 
#69,236
#69,236
AM64 said:
That's really the heart of the issue. Either you recognize players as students learning the subject and coaches are the teachers, or you recognize it as a professional program ... and it no longer fits within the university mold. This is like trying to redefine mercenaries as "not military" and qualifying them somehow as legitimate private for profit war mongers on a world stage ... a military capable of waging war but not actually accountable to the government.

Universities as research or medical programs directly tie back to educational purposes. Other than bringing money - for a very very limited number of schools, it's really hard to tie sports programs directly to any direct student oriented benefit. Football coaches and staff certainly don't teach the average student, and the average student isn't going to be using the equipment or facilities set aside for a football program. To that extent it's hard to say that players in major sports don't receive a whole lot of direct compensation not offered the rest of the student body.
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agreed. but as stated above, the fans don't want an amateur situation. they want to see a professional level production. go to a stadium far outside the scale of ANY amateur. want all the pomp and tradition you will never find with an amateur association. they want titles and wins that you can't get from an amateur league.

IMO its an issue I see across multiple entertainment industries, and even some other industries. A certain industry, will have too much success and grow to a point that it can no longer be supported by its original base, and has to expand. once it does that it starts to leave behind its "core values" to continue chasing success. IMO that is extremely non-amateur territory. to quote one of those success stories that grew too big "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian."
 
#69,237
#69,237
LouderVol said:
I agree. the problem was the sport's popularity and the money that came with it. all the things the fans want made it SO much bigger than they were.

You want to see every game? That adds money.
You want to get breakdown of plays and stats? that adds money.
You want to get multiple interviews and interactions from the coaches? That adds money.
You want your team to win? that adds money.
you aren't happy with a "decent" season anymore, and want your team to win titles? That adds money.
You want to fire a coach every 3/4 years looking for a quick fix? that adds money.
you want a Bama-esque dynasty and are willing to do whatever for it? That adds money.
Now if you want good recruits or to keep your players that adds money.

Ultimately all of that money comes from the fans.
Click to expand...

I do want to see games, but most of the other stuff that comes with that like driveling yokels and banners that block plays and replays certainly don't add a lot. In that respect at least MTSU picking up Derik Mason keeps him off broadcasting teams. Wanting and keeping good recruits should not cost money - except for the facilities and coaching/training staff. To be blunt since most collegiate athletes aren't going pro, their emphasis should be on the education they receive and what they can do with it. You and I chose schools that provided the education and qualification necessary for our professions. That's what a university education is really all about - sports is a sideline that needs to be kept in perspective.
 
#69,238
#69,238
AM64 said:
I do want to see games, but most of the other stuff that comes with that like driveling yokels and banners that block plays and replays certainly don't add a lot. In that respect at least MTSU picking up Derik Mason keeps him off broadcasting teams. Wanting and keeping good recruits should not cost money - except for the facilities and coaching/training staff. To be blunt since most collegiate athletes aren't going pro, their emphasis should be on the education they receive and what they can do with it. You and I chose schools that provided the education and qualification necessary for our professions. That's what a university education is really all about - sports is a sideline that needs to be kept in perspective.
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the perspective for me is that it makes money, side hustle or not, and cutting out the very workers/producers/and actual content is wrong. just because it happens at a university as a side gig doesn't change the facts.
 
#69,239
#69,239
LouderVol said:
the perspective for me is that it makes money, side hustle or not, and cutting out the very workers/producers/and actual content is wrong. just because it happens at a university as a side gig doesn't change the facts.
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One thing I failed to mention above is advertising revenue and the role it plays in all entertainment - how it is funded and how it is probably knowingly used in the profit/tax game. If for example, since ESPN is on a quest to monopolize collegiate sports and advertising income rook a hit forcing ESPN to rely on subscriber funding (especially with cable increasingly in the dumpster), what would happen to the number of games broadcast and what would happen to the conference/school payouts from broadcasting. Are there really measurables between commercials and product sales? I am less likely to buy a product because I have to watch the same damn commercial time after time; I may be "different", but I'd bet I'm not the only person that advertising affects in a negative manner.

One thing for sure is that the minute sports somehow become less advertising subsidized and more pay per view, the less time most of us will spend on watching something of only peripheral interest. That is basically very much a parallel with NIL. The outcome is likely that the haves get bigger and the rest fade into nothing, and that means some athletes are rewarded (like pro athletes) and the rest ...
 
#69,241
#69,241
All this gnashing of teeth with Baron in portal because he didnt get his NIL deal. While at same time fans applaud trying to get Juice Wells or a transfer from sonewhere else. Sounds like Dem sanctuary policy. We want it, just dont let it affect us.

Welcome to mercenary professional football.
 
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#69,245
#69,245
Doneiko slaughter joined the other 2 seniors at DB in the portal. Good news IMO...the bowl game should have Gabe Jeudy Lally at 1 corner who hopefully comes back next season for his covid year, but at the other corner we will have 3 solid to high 4* freshmen playing the whole game and going in for Gabe when he needs a rest. Coleman, Matthews, and Conyers should all get a ton of playing time and its EXACTLY what they need. They are the future back there and are much faster on average than the Burrells, Turnage, and Slaughter seniors are. They will make mistakes plenty...I am sure...but they can make them against 1 of the worst offenses in the country that averages 16 points per game mostly from running the ball. Michigan shut these guys out...and while their defense is a bit better than ours, we should still be able to win this game with 20 something points if we need to. I am excited to finally get to see the best of the dozen DBs we brought in for 2023 finally get some real playing time. GO VOLS
 
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#69,246
#69,246
hog88 said:
I broached this idea in the FF, yeah I know not many deep thinkers over there so I figured I'd post it here for the smart people to discuss.

With athletes now able to transfer once (twice if a graduate) without penalty I think we're seeing guys use the portal as free agency to shop for a better NIL deal. Starters from good teams with current NIL deals are jumping into the portal this cycle so my thought is to allow the collectives to sign 2-3 personal service contracts with these guys. They wouldn't be employees, they wouldn't be barred from using their free transfers, they would only be prohibited from signing another NIL deal with a different collective.

Right now that is against the NIL rules and I propose that be changed. I think it's going to get worse and without some form of contract the NIL system will be unsustainable long term. Donors/collective members will eventually tire of being held hostage every year by star players threatening to transfer if they don't get more money.
Click to expand...


Good post, I agree.

Also, we need to call this NIL era what it really is: free agency. Or name it something else but thats still what it is. Therefore we need, as has been learned by the NFL over the decades....a salary cap. Either as a team, such that each football team can spend only $10MM a year ...or individually such as each player can only earn $200k max as a senior starting at $160 max as a freshman and steadily increasing $10k a year......OR both. If not, its only a matter of time until aTm or similar decides to spend $30MM plus every year and wins 9/10 championship games in a decade.

Got to have some kind of rules....like in pretty much everything else humans do.
 
#69,247
#69,247
marcusluvsvols said:
Good post, I agree.

Also, we need to call this NIL era what it really is: free agency. Or name it something else but thats still what it is. Therefore we need, as has been learned by the NFL over the decades....a salary cap. Either as a team, such that each football team can spend only $10MM a year ...or individually such as each player can only earn $200k max as a senior starting at $160 max as a freshman and steadily increasing $10k a year......OR both. If not, its only a matter of time until aTm or similar decides to spend $30MM plus every year and wins 9/10 championship games in a decade.

Got to have some kind of rules....like in pretty much everything else humans do.
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Nope, no caps. Just simply allow the collectives to buy players NIL rights for up to 3 years. Yes, the number of years needs to be limited so they can’t take advantage of these players and it needs to be a rule that a player isn’t required to sign an NIL deal with a collective. If they can do better on the open market, outside of a boosters collective then great, they get to be yearly free agents.
 
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#69,249
#69,249
Orangeburst said:
All this gnashing of teeth with Baron in portal because he didnt get his NIL deal. While at same time fans applaud trying to get Juice Wells or a transfer from sonewhere else. Sounds like Dem sanctuary policy. We want it, just dont let it affect us.

Welcome to mercenary professional football.
Click to expand...

Theres buzz that we have good news dropping this weekend...i think we get Wells. Will help Nico a bunch next season. Hopefully we get a TE or 2 also from the portal and an Olineman as well. We wouldnt have told Joly to go elsewhere this weekend (i bet due to high $$$ demands) if we didnt feel good about a TE from elsewhere IMO because we need help at the position badly. We have talent at TE in a couple 4* kids but they are 19yos....
 
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