Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

#69,202
#69,202
McDad said:
Understood. There are players who have graduated but still continue to play. Playing with no educational obligations.
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I thought they were working toward graduate degrees; if they aren't, it doesn't seem they should still be there playing - and certainly not taking up athletic scholarships.
 
#69,205
#69,205
McDad said:
Yall ever have those moments when something completely random from your past just floods into your brain?

This morning I was drinking my coffee minding my own business and the ABC Wild World of Sports neurons fired off. Specifically, the music and the ski jump person spectacularly crashing at the end of the ramp and the voice over saying, "the agony of defeat".
View attachment 600376
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the human drama of athletic competition
 
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#69,206
#69,206
What is to stop someone from signing NIL contract for 25 million for the rights to their NIL now and in future up to five years with the rights to outsource their name and likeness to other companies. Then once player is in NFL selling access to this NIL to other companies for profit.

PS. Stoned so if this makes no sense apologies.
 
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#69,207
#69,207
AM64 said:
Athletic scholarships - especially the ones at schools like UT come with very generous meal plans ... that a player has to steal to eat is preposterous. That is what "cost of attendance" was supposed to address - that's just shy of $6K/per year. Will it buy a car, pay for off campus apartment and food? No. Does it provide spending money on top of athletic dorms and cafeterias (often with specific meals planned by team dieticians)? Yes. Students have always been faced with decisions if they aren't wealthy - everybody would like a nice apartment and car, but it doesn't work that way. One thing college teaches is that you do what is necessary to get the degree to enable you to live better after graduation; the student loan crisis points out that students aren't getting the message.

ROTC scholarships pay those extra benefits to entice people into the program. Pre pro sports types just need a place to play and show their abilities to make it to the draft or tryouts. That's a case of individual need - the military needs; pro sports have plenty of people wanting in - let them figure out the selection process and finance it.

Sure Tennessee brings in a lot of income for home games, but how far does the real accounting go? What budget do all the stadium and practice facilities, upkeep, security, management, etc fall into? What about the travel costs especially with conference expansion? When the accounting is done accurately, what are the real numbers. And that thing about football supporting other sports; do we cut off other sports or make second class student athletes (think Title IX)? In short does favoritism toward football and income essentially result in the death of student athletes outside football, and how does that look when it's all supposed to be amateur sports that supposedly have goals like physical fitness, teaching teamwork, providing relief from the classroom, etc?
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the FULL meal plans are a very recent change, when I graduated in 2012 it wasn't even a thing. Arian Foster graduated after the 08 season. yet even back then the argument was these players were getting "enough" via the scholarship and they didn't need any more. and they clearly did need more because the NCAA approved meal plan didn't cover all meals. Same thing with the cost of attendance, one of the minor violations we got in trouble for a while ago was buying a player a plain ticket home because his mom was in the hospital, we paid because he didn't have any money, and due to the scholarship he couldn't work to get money to go home. and again before that rule, the argument was the scholarship was "enough", even though it clearly isn't.

if a scholarship engineering student creates some new patent that generates millions of dollars of sales, his scholarship doesn't restrict his ability to make money off of his own work. even if that work was directly associated with him getting a degree. Not sure why it would be different for a football player making money off their own hard work. none of the scholarships I was on limited my ability to earn money. Most of the student athletes won't go pro, so are they just SOL because some of their teammates MAY go pro?

all of those accounting items are included. Football makes the AD SOOOOO much money. its the exact same principal as UT paying small schools to come play us. that money pays for their athletic programs, why is it hard to believe that UT's AD is also as reliant on UT's football program to pay the bills if it is paying smaller school's bills too? To me amateur was always the intramural level. scholarship college sports were always semi-pros. especially when you have the coaches making as much as they do. I never liked socialism, the other sports suffering isn't part of the equation to me for any individual player/sport to get fair treatment. IMO the non-revenue sports are part of the problem. Title IX especially, I have been waiting for some school to figure out a way around that bit of socialism.
 
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#69,208
#69,208
LouderVol said:
the FULL meal plans are a very recent change, when I graduated in 2012 it wasn't even a thing. Arian Foster graduated after the 08 season. yet even back then the argument was these players were getting "enough" via the scholarship and they didn't need any more. and they clearly did need more because the NCAA approved meal plan didn't cover all meals. Same thing with the cost of attendance, one of the minor violations we got in trouble for a while ago was buying a player a plain ticket home because his mom was in the hospital, we paid because he didn't have any money, and due to the scholarship he couldn't work to get money to go home. and again before that rule, the argument was the scholarship was "enough", even though it clearly isn't.

if a scholarship engineering student creates some new patent that generates millions of dollars of sales, his scholarship doesn't restrict his ability to make money off of his own work. even if that work was directly associated with him getting a degree. Not sure why it would be different for a football player making money off their own hard work. none of the scholarships I was on limited my ability to earn money. Most of the student athletes won't go pro, so are they just SOL because some of their teammates MAY go pro?

all of those accounting items are included. Football makes the AD SOOOOO much money. its the exact same principal as UT paying small schools to come play us. that money pays for their athletic programs, why is it hard to believe that UT's AD is also as reliant on UT's football program to pay the bills if it is paying smaller school's bills too? To me amateur was always the intramural level. scholarship college sports were always semi-pros. especially when you have the coaches making as much as they do. I never liked socialism, the other sports suffering isn't part of the equation to me for any individual player/sport to get fair treatment. IMO the non-revenue sports are part of the problem. Title IX especially, I have been waiting for some school to figure out a way around that bit of socialism.
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Good post. Tennessee Football inc makes over $100million a year...which supports our entire AD, every sport included; and still has enough to donate tens of millions of $$$ a year to the educational side of the University. Despite us being top 3 in spending on recruiting budget last time I saw anyway...which is also millions of $$$ in travel, food, accomodations, swag for recruits, mail and internet staff etc. UT Football is an extremely profitable business. We are 1 of the 2 dozen or so programs whose football teams ARE hugely profitable and enjoy these luxurious budgets. While i believe NIL will help schools like ours catch up to Bama, UGA, and OSU a bit talent wise....it will also spell doom for many teams who have a good but not great program, and dont have the donors to buy top level players in the NIL era. I think the top 10 or 12 teams will have more parity....but there will be a huge chasm, think "Grand Canyon" , in between the top 15 or 20 programs and literally everyone else. Schools that cant afford to pay for 4* players will not be relevant at all. Bad news for Vandy, Miss St., etc. The talent gap between the bottom feeders and the top 20 programs will be huge IMO. This will set up for example, the automatic playoff qualifier from the non p5 school to get blown out by 50 points in the playoffs round 1 every season.

I have no problem with NIL paying players, they should always be able to profit from their own names etc....BUT what we have now is basically Free Agency like the NFL except WITHOUT any salary caps, luxury taxes for exceeding said cap, nor a Collective Bargaining Agreement to set a wage scale. This is not a good thing. For example, aTm has billions and billions...there is nothing at all in place to prevent them from offering every 5* recruit TWICE as much $$$ as every other school and completely resetting pay expectations among players in any or all seasons. They could literally "price every òther team out of competition " and theres absolutely nothing to stop them. Thats how they got the no1 class 2 years ago....luckily for the rest of the world Jimbo sucked. With a great coach there....aTm could go on a streak that makes Bama look like amateurs and win 10 Chips in a row with the top recruiting class every season.

There needs to be some rules laid down in this Wild West that is now NIL....I just dont trust the NCAA nor the .gov to handle it. Somebody needs to start acting like adults though....and soon.
 
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#69,209
#69,209
marcusluvsvols said:
Good post. Tennessee Football inc makes over $100million a year...which supports our entire AD, every sport included; and still has enough to donate tens of millions of $$$ a year to the educational side of the University. Despite us being top 3 in spending on recruiting budget last time I saw anyway...which is also millions of $$$ in travel, food, accomodations, swag for recruits, mail and internet staff etc. UT Football is an extremely profitable business. We are 1 of the 2 dozen or so programs whose football teams ARE hugely profitable and enjoy these luxurious budgets. While i believe NIL will help schools like ours catch up to Bama, UGA, and OSU a bit talent wise....it will also spell doom for many teams who have a good but not great program, and dont have the donors to buy top level players in the NIL era. I think the top 10 or 12 teams will have more parity....but there will be a huge chasm, think "Grand Canyon" , in between the top 15 or 20 programs and literally everyone else. Schools that cant afford to pay for 4* players will not be relevant at all. Bad news for Vandy, Miss St., etc. The talent gap between the bottom feeders and the top 20 programs will be huge IMO. This will set up for example, the automatic playoff qualifier from the non p5 school to get blown out by 50 points in the playoffs round 1 every season.

I have no problem with NIL paying players, they should always be able to profit from their own names etc....BUT what we have now is basically Free Agency like the NFL except WITHOUT any salary caps, luxury taxes for exceeding said cap, nor a Collective Bargaining Agreement to set a wage scale. This is not a good thing. For example, aTm has billions and billions...there is nothing at all in place to prevent them from offering every 5* recruit TWICE as much $$$ as every other school and completely resetting pay expectations among players in any or all seasons. They could literally "price every òther team out of competition " and theres absolutely nothing to stop them. Thats how they got the no1 class 2 years ago....luckily for the rest of the world Jimbo sucked. With a great coach there....aTm could go on a streak that makes Bama look like amateurs and win 10 Chips in a row with the top recruiting class every season.

There needs to be some rules laid down in this Wild West that is now NIL....I just dont trust the NCAA nor the .gov to handle it. Somebody needs to start acting like adults though....and soon.
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I think it will take an act of congress, but I think it gets really tricky because you have so many public universities. I think it will have to mimic the NFL with some form of anti-monopoly protection or something. Right now they are stuck in a middle ground, they aren't students, and they aren't employees. Not everyone will like it, but no answer is going to please everyone, so for me it has to be fair. and if the fair answer costs the NCAA/schools/students a lot of money from lost fan support they will have to live with that too.

I think the answer will be some form of binding contract. loyalty is a two way street, and the players were the last ones we expected to loyal. definitely didn't expect the coaches to be loyal, and universities have done plenty to throw the players under the bus. The NCAA is just an extension of the universities, so any beef with them goes back to the NCAA. Its another reason the P5 have talked about forming their own division, because the rest of the NCAA is holding the P5 from making some of the changes that would make things "fair".
 
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#69,211
#69,211
I don't want another dog...

But last night I was taking SSC's presents out to the car to hide them and left the garage door open. Little did I know I was going to have a visitor... much less one that's stayed until this afternoon.

She does get along with my Tara. So...

1000000949.jpg1000000950.jpg
 
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#69,212
#69,212
Grand Vol said:
I don't want another dog...

But last night I was taking SSC's presents out to the car to hide them and left the garage door open. Little did I know I was going to have a visitor... much less one that's stayed until this afternoon.

She does get along with my Tara. So...

View attachment 600872View attachment 600873
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Our best dogs have been walkups. Unfortunately i live in an area where jackwads drop their pets when they no longer want.
 
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#69,213
#69,213
Grand Vol said:
I don't want another dog...

But last night I was taking SSC's presents out to the car to hide them and left the garage door open. Little did I know I was going to have a visitor... much less one that's stayed until this afternoon.

She does get along with my Tara. So...

View attachment 600872View attachment 600873
Click to expand...

You got bitches showing up at your door.
 
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#69,214
#69,214
McDad said:
Our best dogs have been walkups. Unfortunately i live in an area where jackwads drop their pets when they no longer want.
Click to expand...

I think she might have been abandoned too. SSC put out a Facebook post, but no takers yet...

We'll try to see if she has a chip, but she's dirty as hell and has some skin problems.

But I don't need to hear about "good girls" showing up at our doorstep...
 
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#69,216
#69,216
Grand Vol said:
I think she might have been abandoned too. SSC put out a Facebook post, but no takers yet...

We'll try to see if she has a chip, but she's dirty as hell and has some skin problems.

But I don't need to hear about "good girls" showing up at our doorstep...
Click to expand...

Maybe she's a baaaad girl. I mean she did spend the night and didn't leave.
 
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#69,217
#69,217
hog88 said:
Maybe she's a baaaad girl. I mean she did spend the night and didn't leave.
Click to expand...

Oh, the discussion of keeping her has already come up.

Of course, she knew which house to come to. We're both extreme suckers for animals. And... might have been my idea to keep her overnight in the back yard and garage.

Yes, I'm a sucker.
 
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#69,219
#69,219
Grand Vol said:
Oh, the discussion of keeping her has already come up.

Of course, she knew which house to come to. We're both extreme suckers for animals. And... might have been my idea to keep her overnight in the back yard and garage.

Yes, I'm a sucker.
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she has a collar..or have u already collared her? no tags or chip?
 
#69,224
#69,224
LouderVol said:
the FULL meal plans are a very recent change, when I graduated in 2012 it wasn't even a thing. Arian Foster graduated after the 08 season. yet even back then the argument was these players were getting "enough" via the scholarship and they didn't need any more. and they clearly did need more because the NCAA approved meal plan didn't cover all meals. Same thing with the cost of attendance, one of the minor violations we got in trouble for a while ago was buying a player a plain ticket home because his mom was in the hospital, we paid because he didn't have any money, and due to the scholarship he couldn't work to get money to go home. and again before that rule, the argument was the scholarship was "enough", even though it clearly isn't.

if a scholarship engineering student creates some new patent that generates millions of dollars of sales, his scholarship doesn't restrict his ability to make money off of his own work. even if that work was directly associated with him getting a degree. Not sure why it would be different for a football player making money off their own hard work. none of the scholarships I was on limited my ability to earn money. Most of the student athletes won't go pro, so are they just SOL because some of their teammates MAY go pro?

all of those accounting items are included. Football makes the AD SOOOOO much money. its the exact same principal as UT paying small schools to come play us. that money pays for their athletic programs, why is it hard to believe that UT's AD is also as reliant on UT's football program to pay the bills if it is paying smaller school's bills too? To me amateur was always the intramural level. scholarship college sports were always semi-pros. especially when you have the coaches making as much as they do. I never liked socialism, the other sports suffering isn't part of the equation to me for any individual player/sport to get fair treatment. IMO the non-revenue sports are part of the problem. Title IX especially, I have been waiting for some school to figure out a way around that bit of socialism.
Click to expand...

Maybe in the end this is all about envy over coaching pay. Could be the answer to that is to acknowledge that coaches are like any other person teaching on campus and do some salary limits. Could also be that since stadiums and other facilities belong to the school then the money generated belongs to the school and not the athletic department. It simply seems that we are looking at this the wrong way ... instead of making sports and particularly football a professional thing and trying to fit it under the guise of collegiate sport we should be dialing it all back.

I get your point about an engineering student benefitting from something he creates, and likewise I have no problem with a football player receiving a benefit from NIL - as long as that is actually tied to some quantifiable number like the profit derived from sales of a product. That doesn't mean a picture on a cereal box with some unquantifiable "value". You can't really fix ticket cost by reducing cost because of supply and demand. I was at UT when the "activities fee" first came into being; and as I recall one of the tradeoffs was going to be more student tickets. Students still don't seem to benefit much from facilities reserved for athletes, and I can't really tell that student seating has expanded with enrollment.

When it's all said and done, most of the problems come back to TV. I'm happy the games are broadcast. The networks and the schools are happy for the revenue they generate, but we're well into the realm where outsiders are killing what used to work. I used to watch car racing religiously - listened to NASCAR on radio when TV broadcasting was virtually non existent. Got up in later years at weird times to watch a F1 race. I haven't watched a race in years because the stupid amounts of income turned racing stupid ... and insipid.

I simply don't see NIL as solving problems - at least not solving more problems than it causes.
 
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#69,225
#69,225
AM64 said:
Maybe in the end this is all about envy over coaching pay. Could be the answer to that is to acknowledge that coaches are like any other person teaching on campus and do some salary limits. Could also be that since stadiums and other facilities belong to the school then the money generated belongs to the school and not the athletic department. It simply seems that we are looking at this the wrong way ... instead of making sports and particularly football a professional thing and trying to fit it under the guise of collegiate sport we should be dialing it all back.

I get your point about an engineering student benefitting from something he creates, and likewise I have no problem with a football player receiving a benefit from NIL - as long as that is actually tied to some quantifiable number like the profit derived from sales of a product. That doesn't mean a picture on a cereal box with some unquantifiable "value". You can't really fix ticket cost by reducing cost because of supply and demand. I was at UT when the "activities fee" first came into being; and as I recall one of the tradeoffs was going to be more student tickets. Students still don't seem to benefit much from facilities reserved for athletes, and I can't really tell that student seating has expanded with enrollment.

When it's all said and done, most of the problems come back to TV. I'm happy the games are broadcast. The networks and the schools are happy for the revenue they generate, but we're well into the realm where outsiders are killing what used to work. I used to watch car racing religiously - listened to NASCAR on radio when TV broadcasting was virtually non existent. Got up in later years at weird times to watch a F1 race. I haven't watched a race in years because the stupid amounts of income turned racing stupid ... and insipid.

I simply don't see NIL as solving problems - at least not solving more problems than it causes.
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This is an amatuer sport, not professional. The ones that call it capitalistic overlook these are public institutions and generally are the ones that complain about the cost of attending.
 
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