Barnes’ offense

[BigBabyWilliams]

James has to stop being passive in big games and take the ball to the rim more. He's got an NBA body--use
it to dribble-drive to the basket or to get into the lane for his nice short jumpers. He must be more aggressive.

The problem with our bigs is that they aren't go-to guys. You can't look for either of them with, say, 10 seconds left on
the shot clock and know that they can create and get a decent shot off. This is why we end up shooting too many threes, which
are only too many lately because our shooting has been embarrassingly bad.

This is exactly what I’m describing in my post. Even with 25 on shot clock a big that would demand the defense shrink a bit towards the paint would open driving lanes and open 3s. Aidoo is going to be a great player don’t get me wrong, but he’s not a player that works for position and gets it immediately down the court. He’ll trail for a jumper, lay down a screen that doesn’t get respected, or get down the court and crash into the block later than a big that made that a priority.

 

[hUTch2002]

Rocky Top, Oregon?

They need some Southern flavor there.

 

[DuckInAPen]

They need some Southern flavor there.

I've had years of cramped-up city life, trapped like a duck in a pen; all I know is it's a pity life can't be like Oregon.

 

[LucidZ]

Thing about this offense is you don't need some dominant big man playing the inside. You just need someone with good basketball IQ. A center doesn't usually play the low post, in this offense, he plays the high post mostly. Why? Because it's a motion offense, he doesn't play down low because that limits the space needed for off-ball movement and space to drive.

There's nothing wrong with that kind of offense. It only becomes a problem when players aren't executing and hitting their shots. We created plenty of opportunities, they just didn't score.

You can see what a successful form of this offense looks like when you watch a team like the Denver Nuggets, who do have a great big man in Jokic. But notice where and how he plays his role in it.

 

[BigBabyWilliams]

. . . Typically has guys who shoot bricks in big games . . . Don’t know why . . . But it’s undeniable .

I think we have the ones that can hit them right now. A lot of missed threes are us passing it around the perimeter, maybe a drive that gets stopped and a 3 in the last 10 seconds on shot clock goes up because it has to.

Which is why we need an adjustment in the offense or a big that will get position down low and at worse pats out of it to an open shooter.

With no threat down low the opposing defense can harass and be aggressive with our wings and point to not allow the types of looks our shooters can hit.

 

[BigBabyWilliams]

Thing about this offense is you don't need some dominant big man playing the inside. You just need someone with good basketball IQ. A center doesn't usually play the low post, in this offense, he plays the high post mostly. Why? Because it's a motion offense, he doesn't play down low because that limits the space needed for off-ball movement and space to drive.

There's nothing wrong with that kind of offense. It only becomes a problem when players aren't executing and hitting their shots. We created plenty of opportunities, they just didn't score.

You can see what a successful form of this offense looks like when you watch a team like the Denver Nuggets, who do have a great big man in Jokic. But notice where and how he plays his role in it.

Which was exactly my point. Grant or admiral could run that easily. We don’t have a player that can pass like that or command any respect from the defense enough to get open threes and driving lanes

 

[rickyyrs]

Just posted about this in another thread, but this is the reason we can’t breakthrough. It’s specifically his offensive plan.

He sticks with the circle motion offense, which is highly effective with a dominant big man (think Grant) that commands a double team. Or at least someone down low that teams at least have to pay attention to and are threatened by that would allow the wings and point to find open threes and driving lanes.

With no teams worried about the post it allows them to play aggressively on our wing motion offense. Not to mention that the pick and roll is ineffective with no big man that has the skill set for them to prioritize. This isn’t an Aidoo or Awaka hate post either. I love the both of them. In a different offensive they would have to be accounted for wherever they are on the floor. Even if we played a slightly adjusted offense they would get their opportunities down low along with the pick and roll being more effective. Which would open it up a lot more for our point and wings.

We have the golden egg we’ve needed the last few years in Knecht. He can do it all. But if Barnes sticks to this circle motion offense in which he’s shown no willingness to adjust in years, it might be more of these games down the stretch this season.

Whole season left to play, including a guaranteed decent to high tourney seed. If Barnes can find it in him and adjust a bit on offense we can make a deep run in March. This is the team and talent we need to breakthrough to a Final Four. But if Barnes continues the stubbornness that he’s shown no signs of changing… I don’t see this team getting to a Final Four even though the talent is there.

He can at least stand the **** up and coach the game. Sick of seeing him sitting on the bench.

Barnes is old school. He is not going to change his ways

 

[BreatheUT]

We got to find a way to attack the rim! Too many 3's!

Don't we have some young promising guards who redshirt last year with the ability to do that?

 

[LucidZ]

Which was exactly my point. Grant or admiral could run that easily. We don’t have a player that can pass like that or command any respect from the defense enough to get open threes and driving lanes

I mean you were talking mostly about the center in your first post. Someone who can draw the attention and respect of the defense. Talking about us not having some "dominant big man down low". Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by that, because it sounds like you're talking about a low post scorer. Centers, generally by default, draw enough attention. Driving lanes are created from screens/space/and picks.

I guess I beg to differ, we have playmakers who can pass and are creative. We also have guards who are quick on and off ball. We created many chances tonight, but again we just didn't score. If anything the issue was offensive consistency, rather than offensive scheme. This happens every year really. We have nights where nothing is falling for us. Happened back in the days of Grant and Schofield as well.

 

[livefaith]

We got to find a way to attack the rim! Too many 3's!

I don't think you get it ... We WERE attacking the rim ... with the ball from the 3 pt line, for the past two games. Those rims are bruised and battered out there in Honolulu for sure.

 

[livefaith]

Don't we have some young promising guards who redshirt last year with the ability to do that?

Yes, but Freddy Dillion is injured.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Just posted about this in another thread, but this is the reason we can’t breakthrough. It’s specifically his offensive plan.

He sticks with the circle motion offense, which is highly effective with a dominant big man (think Grant) that commands a double team. Or at least someone down low that teams at least have to pay attention to and are threatened by that would allow the wings and point to find open threes and driving lanes.

With no teams worried about the post it allows them to play aggressively on our wing motion offense. Not to mention that the pick and roll is ineffective with no big man that has the skill set for them to prioritize. This isn’t an Aidoo or Awaka hate post either. I love the both of them. In a different offensive they would have to be accounted for wherever they are on the floor. Even if we played a slightly adjusted offense they would get their opportunities down low along with the pick and roll being more effective. Which would open it up a lot more for our point and wings.

We have the golden egg we’ve needed the last few years in Knecht. He can do it all. But if Barnes sticks to this circle motion offense in which he’s shown no willingness to adjust in years, it might be more of these games down the stretch this season.

Whole season left to play, including a guaranteed decent to high tourney seed. If Barnes can find it in him and adjust a bit on offense we can make a deep run in March. This is the team and talent we need to breakthrough to a Final Four. But if Barnes continues the stubbornness that he’s shown no signs of changing… I don’t see this team getting to a Final Four even though the talent is there.

He can at least stand the **** up and coach the game. Sick of seeing him sitting on the bench.

How did we breakthrough and win a loaded Bahamas tournament last year?

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

Just posted about this in another thread, but this is the reason we can’t breakthrough. It’s specifically his offensive plan.

He sticks with the circle motion offense, which is highly effective with a dominant big man (think Grant) that commands a double team. Or at least someone down low that teams at least have to pay attention to and are threatened by that would allow the wings and point to find open threes and driving lanes.

With no teams worried about the post it allows them to play aggressively on our wing motion offense. Not to mention that the pick and roll is ineffective with no big man that has the skill set for them to prioritize. This isn’t an Aidoo or Awaka hate post either. I love the both of them. In a different offensive they would have to be accounted for wherever they are on the floor. Even if we played a slightly adjusted offense they would get their opportunities down low along with the pick and roll being more effective. Which would open it up a lot more for our point and wings.

We have the golden egg we’ve needed the last few years in Knecht. He can do it all. But if Barnes sticks to this circle motion offense in which he’s shown no willingness to adjust in years, it might be more of these games down the stretch this season.

Whole season left to play, including a guaranteed decent to high tourney seed. If Barnes can find it in him and adjust a bit on offense we can make a deep run in March. This is the team and talent we need to breakthrough to a Final Four. But if Barnes continues the stubbornness that he’s shown no signs of changing… I don’t see this team getting to a Final Four even though the talent is there.

He can at least stand the **** up and coach the game. Sick of seeing him sitting on the bench.

This has been known for a while.


“Rick Barnes isn’t an offensive coach, so don’t tell me that."

-- Bobby Knight, to Missouri coach Frank Haith (The Kansas City Star, 2012)

Is Rick Barnes Too Offensively Challenged To Win A Title?

With the start of the basketball season, there is one question that is on the mind of Texas basketball fans.

www.burntorangenation.com

 

[BigBabyWilliams]

So, in a circle motion offense, you're wanting a big man who plays the low post?

Do you not remember how the same offense was more efficient with grant?? A good big forces the defense to shrink towards the paint. Which then allows more room for the motion offense to work.

If laying it in football terms makes you understand better I’ll break it down. If you got no passing game and forced to run, the offense is one dimensional and the defense will load the box….no big men that are a threat allows defenses to be aggressive and all over us on the perimeter.

 

[BigBabyWilliams]

How did we breakthrough and win a loaded Bahamas tournament last year?

Did thinking about that when we lost to FAU last year to get to our second elite eight in program history make you feel better??

 

[savannahfan]

I felt like we had really good looks this afternoon, we were just snake bit with a lid on the rim. I didn’t like the long jump shots Gainey and some of the guys took, but the point blank misses and the wide open 3‘s were more than enough opportunity to win this game.

Typical Tenn. offense.

 

[hUTch2002]

Good idea, @hUTch2002 , but I think we should wait for Awaka's ankle to heal before we have him try a crane kick.

I think Aidoo should do it. There would be arms and legs from here to Kentucky.

 

[hUTch2002]

James has to stop being passive in big games and take the ball to the rim more. He's got an NBA body--use
it to dribble-drive to the basket or to get into the lane for his nice short jumpers. He must be more aggressive.

The problem with our bigs is that they aren't go-to guys. You can't look for either of them with, say, 10 seconds left on
the shot clock and know that they can create and get a decent shot off. This is why we end up shooting too many threes, which
are only too many lately because our shooting has been embarrassingly bad.

I agree it would be great if James did that but he’s not going to so time to forget that. Every now and then he does and let’s just enjoy those moments.

I disagree on why we’re shooting too many 3s. It’s not because we don’t have a go-to big. It’s because we’re not working the ball well enough to get open shots consistently. We’re content to pass it around the perimeter some and jack a 3 a little too much. Barnes should have a rule that if it’s not transition then no 3s are shot without the ball entering the arc, except for maybe a skip pass to an open shooter.

As others have said, it seems this offense works well with a high post. I don’t think we have a post that could be a scoring threat enough from the foul line but it doesn’t have to be Awaka, Aidoo, Estrella, etc. Let James fill that role. He’s a good passer, can drive it if the lane opens up and can knock down the 15-ft jumper. I’d also let Knecht try it at times. My only concern there is then it takes him off the perimeter and I don’t know that he would match up well defensively if playing a 4. Anyway, just random thoughts. The coaches know way more than I do.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Just posted about this in another thread, but this is the reason we can’t breakthrough. It’s specifically his offensive plan.

He sticks with the circle motion offense, which is highly effective with a dominant big man (think Grant) that commands a double team. Or at least someone down low that teams at least have to pay attention to and are threatened by that would allow the wings and point to find open threes and driving lanes.

With no teams worried about the post it allows them to play aggressively on our wing motion offense. Not to mention that the pick and roll is ineffective with no big man that has the skill set for them to prioritize. This isn’t an Aidoo or Awaka hate post either. I love the both of them. In a different offensive they would have to be accounted for wherever they are on the floor. Even if we played a slightly adjusted offense they would get their opportunities down low along with the pick and roll being more effective. Which would open it up a lot more for our point and wings.

We have the golden egg we’ve needed the last few years in Knecht. He can do it all. But if Barnes sticks to this circle motion offense in which he’s shown no willingness to adjust in years, it might be more of these games down the stretch this season.

Whole season left to play, including a guaranteed decent to high tourney seed. If Barnes can find it in him and adjust a bit on offense we can make a deep run in March. This is the team and talent we need to breakthrough to a Final Four. But if Barnes continues the stubbornness that he’s shown no signs of changing… I don’t see this team getting to a Final Four even though the talent is there.

He can at least stand the **** up and coach the game. Sick of seeing him sitting on the bench.

So, teams don't have to "worry" about our ineffective post players and we have a "big man" with no skill set for a pick and roll but ALL this somehow changes with this other offensive scheme you have not named where they would then have to be "accounted for wherever they are on the floor"?

L
M
A
O

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Did thinking about that when we lost to FAU last year to get to our second elite eight in program history make you feel better??

I was pointing out the ignorance with your statement. I feel fine about them. Then again, I'm not a know-nothing reactionary. I know success in a marathon of a regular season reflects the best teams, not some one and done, crapshoot of a tournament where luck plays a huge role.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Do you not remember how the same offense was more efficient with grant?? A good big forces the defense to shrink towards the paint. Which then allows more room for the motion offense to work.

If laying it in football terms makes you understand better I’ll break it down. If you got no passing game and forced to run, the offense is one dimensional and the defense will load the box….no big men that are a threat allows defenses to be aggressive and all over us on the perimeter.

Yes! Our offense was better with Grant. Barnes also had a better offense with Durant and TJ Ford. I have no idea why… Frankly, this is a really versatile offense that fits lots of skillsets and handles doubles well. We had great looks on two very good teams. We did not shoot well. I’ve been really pleased with the looks we’re getting this year. Barnes has given a green light to shoot earlier in the clock, drive more, and shoot dribble threes. That’s good and bad, but it’s different. If the team can be B- in shooting percentage, improve rebounding and play the defense we’re used to, we’ll do well. The schemeis not the problem.

 

[cwbytruckers]

You can’t possibly be trying to deny the fact he sits most of the game right?

What does him sitting or standing have anything to do with the success of this team? He gives the refs an ear full plenty throughout a game.

 

[DuckInAPen]

I think Aidoo should do it. There would be arms and legs from here to Kentucky.

Aidoo's already had too many years in the program. I proposed Awaka in the hope that Barnes may not yet have succeeded in coaching all the offense out of him.

 

[Volfan1000]

Just posted about this in another thread, but this is the reason we can’t breakthrough. It’s specifically his offensive plan.

He sticks with the circle motion offense, which is highly effective with a dominant big man (think Grant) that commands a double team. Or at least someone down low that teams at least have to pay attention to and are threatened by that would allow the wings and point to find open threes and driving lanes.

With no teams worried about the post it allows them to play aggressively on our wing motion offense. Not to mention that the pick and roll is ineffective with no big man that has the skill set for them to prioritize. This isn’t an Aidoo or Awaka hate post either. I love the both of them. In a different offensive they would have to be accounted for wherever they are on the floor. Even if we played a slightly adjusted offense they would get their opportunities down low along with the pick and roll being more effective. Which would open it up a lot more for our point and wings.

We have the golden egg we’ve needed the last few years in Knecht. He can do it all. But if Barnes sticks to this circle motion offense in which he’s shown no willingness to adjust in years, it might be more of these games down the stretch this season.

Whole season left to play, including a guaranteed decent to high tourney seed. If Barnes can find it in him and adjust a bit on offense we can make a deep run in March. This is the team and talent we need to breakthrough to a Final Four. But if Barnes continues the stubbornness that he’s shown no signs of changing… I don’t see this team getting to a Final Four even though the talent is there.

He can at least stand the **** up and coach the game. Sick of seeing him sitting on the bench.

Aidoo needs to stay down low and take inside shots instead of shooting an occassional three point shot.

Awaka needs to develop a mid range game because he can't shoot over bigs like Dickinson and Edey.

This team cannot just live on the three point shot and they need to get at least 25 to 30 paint points per game along with pushing tempo every chance they get.

 

[hUTch2002]

Aidoo's already had too many years in the program. I proposed Awaka in the hope that Barnes may not yet have succeeded in coaching all the offense out of him.

Karate for defense only!