Recruiting Football Talk VII

[MoCo_Vol]

If you take those stats and realize that they played a significantly weaker schedule when it comes to offense, I'm not sure you can make the claim they are better. It's my opinion they are at best equal.

But that also highlight just how BAD the offense was and even when the offense is good our defense is on the field a ton.

I do agree though, last year's team (especially the defense) was better than the stats showed because of the gauntlet that schedule ended up being. But I also think last year's offense with this year's defense we probably only lose 2 games and I think we would have actually beaten Bama. Cause I know Hooker and Hyatt would have hung more than 20 on them with how bad Bama started that game.

 

[knoxvol52]

He was, round 6th with pick 226

Thanks thought he went undrafted.... everybody can't be a Bill Bates or Everson Walls..I assume..

 

[jakez4ut]

So 5,6,7 years to field a competent defense?

Did Mizzou or FL have better players or coaches?

Why is the automatic go to is to throw the players under the bus rather than the coaches who get millions to field a team?

i think the problem with the debate here is there's just the ends of the spectrum, and nothing in the middle (context).

rarely is it just one thing, or another, with a group/organization/team that's comprised of multiple people....it's usually a combination of things.

could the coaches have done better? sure. said it already i don't think we did a very good job of making adjustments or reacting to changes made by other teams, especially the better teams we played....think 2nd half bama defense compared to 1st half bama defense.....as a glaring example.

did injuries hurt this defense? yes, we lost a couple of key players at key positions that really hurt...Hadden and Pili being out changed things. losing Arion Carter hurt too.

are the players we have/depth we have good enough to compete at the highest level? no, not across the board, and the dept isn't there. we have some very good players though, DL was good all year, Beasley had a good year...Mcdonald flashes.

anyway....we're not all that far removed from the debacle that was the last 15 years and the cupboard was bare for this staff. and you can tell with how they're recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. now we're not landing everyone we're going after, but they're going after difference makers at LB, CB, Safety and they've done pretty well on the DL....you can see it in how/who they're recruiting that this is a huge need.

so i think if you consider all the context of the situation, it's hard to just say 'its because of 'x', and if you change 'x', the result changes for the better'. it's a recipe and we need some new ingredients, we need some better ingredients and the chef needs to cook it better too.

 

[jakez4ut]

My understanding, was that all his closest buds are in the league. i know nothing beyond that. i would say if he has a chance to go, he's gone.

i think that's probably the case for anyone on the roster.....but i agree, if mays gets a good enough grade back, he gone.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Oh I agree ..I'm just saying CWM will take the fall for Banks this season..as they say **** rolls downhill....

I think Banks leaves, his name was being mentioned for Head Coaching jobs last off-season. He's one of the highest paid DC's in college football...so in year 2 if you're already being shopped that means either you want out or your HC wants you out...either way someone wants you out.

I don't think there are any ill feelings really just doesn't seem to be the right fit to pair with this offense.

 

[Orange_Crush]

i think the problem with the debate here is there's just the ends of the spectrum, and nothing in the middle (context).

rarely is it just one thing, or another, with a group/organization/team that's comprised of multiple people....it's usually a combination of things.

could the coaches have done better? sure. said it already i don't think we did a very good job of making adjustments or reacting to changes made by other teams, especially the better teams we played....think 2nd half bama defense compared to 1st half bama defense.....as a glaring example.

did injuries hurt this defense? yes, we lost a couple of key players at key positions that really hurt...Hadden and Pili being out changed things. losing Arion Carter hurt too.

are the players we have/depth we have good enough to compete at the highest level? no, not across the board, and the dept isn't there. we have some very good players though, DL was good all year, Beasley had a good year...Mcdonald flashes.

anyway....we're not all that far removed from the debacle that was the last 15 years and the cupboard was bare for this staff. and you can tell with how they're recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. now we're not landing everyone we're going after, but they're going after difference makers at LB, CB, Safety and they've done pretty well on the DL....you can see it in how/who they're recruiting that this is a huge need.

so i think if you consider all the context of the situation, it's hard to just say 'its because of 'x', and if you change 'x', the result changes for the better'. it's a recipe and we need some new ingredients, we need some better ingredients and the chef needs to cook it better too.

Which goes back to the non-linear improvement we should expect, as opposed to demanding year on year spikes. It'll be a matter of getting players on campus and developed--not just for starters, but for quality depth.

 

[jakez4ut]

Which goes back to the non-linear improvement we should expect, as opposed to demanding year on year spikes. It'll be a matter of getting players on campus and developed--not just for starters, but for quality depth.

ladies and gentlemen, the short version of my post. thank you.

 

[knoxvol52]

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Had to read it all day yesterday too. We will see some changes to the staff, it’s coming.

If Banks does take a HC job somewhere...let me throw a name at you Jim Knowles OSU DC....??

 

[MarcoVol]

If Banks does take a HC job somewhere...let me throw a name at you Jim Knowles OSU DC....??

Lol

 

[InVOLuntary]

i think the problem with the debate here is there's just the ends of the spectrum, and nothing in the middle (context).

rarely is it just one thing, or another, with a group/organization/team that's comprised of multiple people....it's usually a combination of things.

could the coaches have done better? sure. said it already i don't think we did a very good job of making adjustments or reacting to changes made by other teams, especially the better teams we played....think 2nd half bama defense compared to 1st half bama defense.....as a glaring example.

did injuries hurt this defense? yes, we lost a couple of key players at key positions that really hurt...Hadden and Pili being out changed things. losing Arion Carter hurt too.

are the players we have/depth we have good enough to compete at the highest level? no, not across the board, and the dept isn't there. we have some very good players though, DL was good all year, Beasley had a good year...Mcdonald flashes.

anyway....we're not all that far removed from the debacle that was the last 15 years and the cupboard was bare for this staff. and you can tell with how they're recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. now we're not landing everyone we're going after, but they're going after difference makers at LB, CB, Safety and they've done pretty well on the DL....you can see it in how/who they're recruiting that this is a huge need.

so i think if you consider all the context of the situation, it's hard to just say 'its because of 'x', and if you change 'x', the result changes for the better'. it's a recipe and we need some new ingredients, we need some better ingredients and the chef needs to cook it better too.

We're 3 years in. At some point it becomes the norm.

 

[knoxvol52]

Lol

Oh I forgot you're Tim Banks agent....carry on...

 

[Vols4us]

It's not hyperbole, next year will be year 4. If you look at the trajectory of this defense, it won't be any better. It actually could be worse given the attrition. So I'm asking, is year 5 the breakout year? Or should we wait for year 6 or 7?

I've been here a long time. These conversations are about as predictable as the seasons. It's always the same, "wait till he gets his guys in here. " meanwhile, 3 years in, in a time when rebuilding has never been easier, and we have a defense that couldn't cover mother Theresa. But there's always next year, or the year after, or the year after that. Meanwhile, recruiting suffers because people see that you can't field a competent defense, and we have the excuse that we need more players but we can't get them because we suck at playing defense.

Tim Banks will never field a defense capable of winning anything of significance.

Tend to agree. Not seeing elite players in the portal or HS rushing to play for Banks. Hopefully we will get a few, but more likely it will be because of CRG, who is an elite assistant., So development has to be at the top of the attributes list to get it done on D. What does everybody complain about every year on here when it comes to D no matter who the HC has been? Development. Especially secondary and LBs.

For building programs the "wait til he gets his guys here" no longer applies due to NIL and the transfer portal (FA's). You improve and fill needs with FA's every single year and build core with HS players (minor leagues for baseball fans). The best at doing that will win if the NIL money is similar. After that it is all on development, schemes and in-game coaching.

The currently elite programs already built their rosters. They will cherry pick elite FA's as needed and continue to refill the core roster with elite HS talent. They will refill their coaching vacancies with high quality that are well compensated.

IMO - that leaves hiring the best assistants Heup can possibly hire to jump start the FA and HS recruiting as well as their development to a higher level. Failing to do that leads to what we have now. If folks are OK with that they need to stop whining when we lose badly to Mizzou, Ole Miss and Florida.

 

[InVOLuntary]

But that also highlight just how BAD the offense was and even when the offense is good our defense is on the field a ton.

I do agree though, last year's team (especially the defense) was better than the stats showed because of the gauntlet that schedule ended up being. But I also think last year's offense with this year's defense we probably only lose 2 games and I think we would have actually beaten Bama. Cause I know Hooker and Hyatt would have hung more than 20 on them with how bad Bama started that game.

It's all conjecture. I have zero faith in Banks (if you can't tell ). The sooner we end this the quicker the defense can turn around. If he's still here, we'll be having the same conversation next year.

 

[drvenner]

During my last visit to my doctor, I asked him about when a person dies, what is the last part of the body to cease functioning. He replied, "Well, you know it's the pupils. Because they dilate."

 

[Orange_Crush]

We're 3 years in. At some point it becomes the norm.

It's been the norm for years before he got here. We're actually discussing the time needed to change norms and create new norms. As mentioned, with the nature of recruiting and rosters, it'll be non-linear improvement.

 

[MarcoVol]

Oh I forgot you're Tim Banks agent....carry on...

I lol bc you threw out a name of a DC who makes $1.9M and works for OSU, a perennial playoff participant.

There is a less than 0% chance that dude would ever leave OSU for UT.

 

[mrMet]

Thanks thought he went undrafted.... everybody can't be a Bill Bates or Everson Walls..I assume..

Only reason he went that late is because of his blood issue he had

 

[Orange_Crush]

I lol bc you threw out a name of a DC who makes $1.9M and works for OSU, a perennial playoff participant.

There is a less than 0% chance that dude would ever leave OSU for UT.

And is there proof he can build a program and have success while balancing talent inequalities?

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

PFF couldn’t grade kindergarten papers.

Even so, watch that game Herring was lost all game.

 

[InVOLuntary]

It's been the norm for years before he got here. We're actually discussing the time needed to change norms and create new norms. As mentioned, with the nature of recruiting and rosters, it'll be non-linear improvement.

So stay mediocre so you can get better.

Or you can hire the best coaches that can attract great talent and improve. If you're sitting still, your going backwards. We're going backwards.

 

[Volbucky]

Does anyone think these CoVid years... actually hinder the development of younger players by them not getting playing time on the field???

Just like the “covid cash handouts” they seem to have more delayed negative effects than the positives they brought in at the time.

 

[knoxvol52]

I lol bc you threw out a name of a DC who makes $1.9M and works for OSU, a perennial playoff participant.

There is a less than 0% chance that dude would ever leave OSU for UT.

You like Banks that's cool, I prefer a more aggressive style...like I stated in a earlier post ..CJH isn't or shouldn't be on hot seat..but he has major decisions to make for next season..hope he makes the rite ones.......

 

[KB5252]

And promptly went and fathered 7 kids in one night.

I laffed

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

Why don’t we try staff consistency?

Break the mold.

Everything you wrote could explain essentially every season and staff Tennessee has had going back to the last few years of the Fulmer era. We’ve cycled through so many coaches, hired so many “super” coordinators that were busts, etc. and none of it has amounted to a hill of beans.

Why not just let this group, who has been wildly more successful than any recent group, run this thing a few more years and see how it all works out?

We did. It’s been three years. Defense still isn’t good and we haven’t recruited any difference makers at LB (except Carter) and DB so nothing will change. That’s why we need a change because we have the consistent average LBs and DBs and it’s killing us. DL will be scary good next year. And a Nico led offense will be a terror.

 

[Orange_Crush]

So stay mediocre so you can get better.

Or you can hire the best coaches that can attract great talent and improve. If you're sitting still, your going backwards. We're going backwards.

Yah. I think I'll leave you to it. You seem dead set on repeatedly arguing oversimplifications and assumptions that ignore the input of others.

Go Vols..