Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Volfan2012]

Gee, I missed the announcement that Tennessee is looking for a new women's coach. Seems like that development would have gotten more media.

Searching, searching, nope, nope, nope. How strange. Oh, well, so I ake it from this thread that Candace and Tamika will be co-coaching the team? Big (secret) news day for sure. Dang Kellie is gonna be shocked.

They aren't of course, but still this is what this thread is all about so I am into playing the game. Something fun to talk about this year and next year and see where it goes from there. Actually this is one of the most popular posts on the site.

 

[LVsinceJV]

If we're going in the family criteria how about Tamika Catchings should could recruit just as well as Parker and both have ZERO coaching experience in the college game

Tamika did not do well managing personnel as the GM of the Indiana Fever. Not quite the same role, but just putting that out there. She's an amazing person, and my favorite player and player archetype in the world, but I don't know about her as a coach.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

LV's BB is a major sports program. You need some management, CEO level of ability to run it and manage a budget, boosters, NIL, etc. Pruitt is a prime example. He is an experienced coach, recruiter, knows X's and O's but didn't know jack on how to effectively run a big time program. He had no HC experience in doing this. Not saying Parker etc could not be mentored by AD in this area but there is more to it than recruiting and knowing the game.

 

[Majors]

I don't like the way it is set up for women's sports. A separate one for women's basketball would be what would draw the most interest. If fans knew they were contributing only to women's basketball or even softball and basketball it would be easier to get the donations going. I don't care much about a rowing team. golf, etc. If they are getting an equal share of the money then it is hurting our chances to get better players for basketball and softball.

But unfortunately it sounds like it’s not. Otherside is, fans see football and men’s bball getting the most and the ladies feel slighted because of lack of support of deals. Could the same be said for rowing, tennis, golf and female track athletes in regards to female deals when BoostHer directly targets basketball and carry over to now softball and soccer. Those other female sports are now fighting against the very collection as “other”.

 

[Volfan2012]

But unfortunately it sounds like it’s not. Otherside is, fans see football and men’s bball getting the most and the ladies feel slighted because of lack of support of deals. Could the same be said for rowing, tennis, golf and female track athletes in regards to female deals when BoostHer directly targets basketball and carry over to now softball and soccer. Those other female sports are now fighting against the very collection as other.

Your best deals are going to be one on one deals anyway. Far away from a collective offers to elite players will have to be separate from what a collective spreads out to every athlete. The way the collective works I guess is every athlete in every sport gets and equal share of all that is collected. Del Rosario and Velez were looking for a bidding war and LSU was willing to be a party of that. They gave them an offer that evidently Tennessee refused to even be a part of. What we need here it seems is someway to make deals individual like our football QB and be able to pay that amount. Some schools have made offers to individuals and could not back it up Florida in football and heard LSU is having some problems as well.

 

[Volfan2012]

LV's BB is a major sports program. You need some management, CEO level of ability to run it and manage a budget, boosters, NIL, etc. Pruitt is a prime example. He is an experienced coach, recruiter, knows X's and O's but didn't know jack on how to effectively run a big time program. He had no HC experience in doing this. Not saying Parker etc could not be mentored by AD in this area but there is more to it than recruiting and knowing the game.

Of course your talking about going cheap and paying what it takes to get that experience. The posting on here is about going cheap whereas you would need an entry level coach or someone similar that hasn't been on the big stage. If your going for that experienced coach then you have to be willing to put up the money. That is the big question. What is Tennessee willing to put up to be elite in women's basketball? If they are willing to go big fabulous. If were going entry level or mid-major let us at least get someone that I know could recruit top players.

 

[Majors]

Your best deals are going to be one on one deals anyway. Far away from a collective offers to elite players will have to be separate from what a collective spreads out to every athlete. The way the collective works I guess is every athlete in every sport gets and equal share of all that is collected. Del Rosario and Velez were looking for a bidding war and LSU was willing to be a party of that. They gave them an offer that evidently Tennessee refused to even be a part of. What we need here it seems is someway to make deals individual like our football QB and be able to pay that amount. Some schools have made offers to individuals and could not back it up Florida in football and heard LSU is having some problems as well.

Unless we know exact numbers it’s speculation on what those two received from LSU and what we offered or didn’t offer. We landed Jackson who went to LSU and Texas on visits. So with the football stance and Nico, the ones running the female side need to step away if they can’t secure what is needed to be competitive.

Personal brand is also key in regards to high dollar deals. 1-50K followers isn’t going to move the social media footprint for NIL value. 100K-1M+ gets the big deals.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Of course your talking about going cheap and paying what it takes to get that experience. The posting on here is about going cheap whereas you would need an entry level coach or someone similar that hasn't been on the big stage. If your going for that experienced coach then you have to be willing to put up the money. That is the big question. What is Tennessee willing to put up to be elite in women's basketball? If they are willing to go big fabulous. If were going entry level or mid-major let us at least get someone that I know could recruit top players.

Don't keep pushing the responsibility for the money off on others, especially the school. You are free to start up your own collective and make your case for greatness and invest your time and MONEY into achieving parity with the other big players. Please advise of your progress in this effort. Diminishing the efforts of others is not a valid substitute.

 

[Volfan2012]

Don't keep pushing the responsibility for the money off on others, especially the school. You are free to start up your own collective and make your case for greatness and invest your time and MONEY into achieving parity with the other big players. Please advise of your progress in this effort. Diminishing the efforts of others is not a valid substitute.

What does this have to do with hiring a coach? Evidently your on the wrong post to talk about Nil collectives.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Of course your talking about going cheap and paying what it takes to get that experience. The posting on here is about going cheap whereas you would need an entry level coach or someone similar that hasn't been on the big stage. If your going for that experienced coach then you have to be willing to put up the money. That is the big question. What is Tennessee willing to put up to be elite in women's basketball? If they are willing to go big fabulous. If were going entry level or mid-major let us at least get someone that I know could recruit top players.[/QUOTE]

Don't disagree with this just pointing out to the ones wanting the TN legacy players, Parker, Tamika, etc. they have no HC experience at all. Could they do it and you are assuming they would be great recruiters. I to think they would be good recruiters but more than that is needed to coach a big time program expecting them to take it to the next level. Not sure an AD would want to take that risk over hiring an experience HC. I would bet AD White falls in the later category.

 

[KB5252]

The way I understand it we have little coming back in the way of production next year. We missed on all of our targets this year, which means we go to the portal heavy. That rarely works out well.

If you expect next year to get worse why wait for the inevitable?

 

[Darth_Vol]

The way I understand it we have little coming back in the way of production next year. We missed on all of our targets this year, which means we go to the portal heavy. That rarely works out well.

If you expect next year to get worse why wait for the inevitable?

Because that line of reasoning is far too logical.

There are still some delusional enough to believe that any day now Kellie is going to a reach a level of coaching she has never been close to in her nearly 20 years of doing this...

 

[Remy]

In case many of you haven't noticed it our Athletic Director is about winning. If it's baseball or whatever a staff had better be winners mediocre will not get it on The Hill with Mr. White in charge. I've not heard anything out of him about Kelly being on the hot seat this season. She may be but I've gotten the impression everybody on the staffs at UTAD understands where they stand with him. A next factoid is a good AD and I think White is that always has a list or coaches to go to in the event he needs to move in another direction for any reason. Given the vaunted historic program that Lady Vol bball is you can bet if Kelly goes, the next hire will be a good one and will win at the levels we all expect.

 

[Majors]

Because that line of reasoning is far too logical.

There are still some delusional enough to believe that any day now Kellie is going to a reach a level of coaching she has never been close to in her nearly 20 years of doing this...

That 20 year number brings it all together.

 

[SGMVols]

The way I understand it we have little coming back in the way of production next year. We missed on all of our targets this year, which means we go to the portal heavy. That rarely works out well.

If you expect next year to get worse why wait for the inevitable?

An argument could be made that because of how badly Kellie has botched the roster situation for next year, it would make the job less attractive to another coach right now, so that forces us to give Kellie another year.

she gets to perversely benefit from her own failure in that regard.

 

[madtownvol]

They aren't of course, but still this is what this thread is all about so I am into playing the game. Something fun to talk about this year and next year and see where it goes from there. Actually this is one of the most popular posts on the site.

I get that. But, from pov, it is also a little toxic. Critiquing Kellie is one thing but speculating about her imminent replacement when so much of this season is in play, for me, is crossing a line. Outside of some blog speculations, there is no serious discussion of replacing Kellie and the heat under her seat will be determined by the up coming tournament games. If she gets back to the Sweet 16, I know fans on this board will scream "not good enough" but no sane AD would reach that conclusion.

I have come down from the ledge a bit on Kellie. I had gotten really hung up on the idea that her brand of ball was just to archaic in a three-point shot dominated game. But, you know, SC plays exactly in that Old Skool style. Given that system, losing Key was a bigger deal that just about anyone else on the roster. It pulled the rug from everything. I would have liked Kellie to adapt but she ain't about change and Hollingshead has started to fill that Key role and Rickea has become a better version of Alexis Dye (at least offensively). So, I am more optimistic about them a closing run.

 

[madtownvol]

An argument could be made that because of how badly Kellie has botched the roster situation for next year, it would make the job less attractive to another coach right now, so that forces us to give Kellie another year.

she gets to perversely benefit from her own failure in that regard.

Until the transfer portal closes, you can't draw that conclusion She pulled a rabbit out of the transfer portal hat once and she might do it again.

 

[SGMVols]

Until the transfer portal closes, you can't draw that conclusion She pulled a rabbit out of the transfer portal hat once and she might do it again.

We’re not going to get another Rickea.

 

[Majors]

An argument could be made that because of how badly Kellie has botched the roster situation for next year, it would make the job less attractive to another coach right now, so that forces us to give Kellie another year.

she gets to perversely benefit from her own failure in that regard.

Job is to leave it better than you found it. All she has to be is better than Holly.

 

[madtownvol]

We’re not going to get another Rickea.

that is not the necessary task (it would be nice...). An upgrade at PG is the number one need. I think Powell can be an excellent #2 option but a more higher caliber player is needed there. Assuming Key comes back and Justine gets into the groove, our line-up won't be looking that bad.

 

[Majors]

that is not the necessary task (it would be nice...). An upgrade at PG is the number one need. I think Powell can be an excellent #2 option but a more higher caliber player is needed there. Assuming Key comes back and Justine gets into the groove, our line-up won't be looking that bad.

This team was preseason #5 with all the bells and whistles.

 

[madtownvol]

This team was preseason #5 with all the bells and whistles.

So? That was then and this is about next season.

 

[SGMVols]

Job is to leave it better than you found it. All she has to be is better than Holly.

A strong case could be made that she hasn’t been better. Holly went to 3 E8s even if it was with Pat’s players. If this were to be her last year, she would leave behind a less talented team than the one she inherited.

 

[Majors]

So? That was then and this is about next season.

Meaning it doesn’t matter. Year 21 won’t be the year she somehow falls down the “we’ve arrived tree” because of the portal. She’ll have kids come, we’ve seen what she did with RJ….not sure how anyone can be sold on doing more with less next year.

 

[Majors]

A strong case could be made that she hasn’t been better. Holly went to 3 E8s even if it was with Pat’s players. If this were to be her last year, she would leave behind a less talented team than the one she inherited.

Preach! Many forget Pat was a shell her final 2 years and Holly coached those teams. I’m not advocating as a Holly fan but stating the way it was.