Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

#1,976
#1,976
SGMVols said:
Fun fact: we almost lost Pat to Kentucky in the 70s but they wouldn’t give her $300 in relocation assistance that she needed to help her move to Lexington. She had grown up a UK men’s basketball fan and it was a dream job for her at the time.
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I actually recall something about that. Had those cheapskates ponied up, I think we'd be happy with a mediocre program. We'd never have known anything different.
 
#1,977
#1,977
Amb3096 said:
UConn would pick a zone apart with ease. The problem is that they need to have personnel to play man when needed, and they just don't. They need to cut down on the number of "tanks" and get more "lightning" that isn't a liability on offense.
Click to expand...

Exactly...high-paint pullups, mid-paint cuts and 3-5 ft out at the mid-key area are open for mid-range games. All they have to do with zone is hit a few threes and we open up a cavernous hole in the mid-range...You have to play man, with a little wrinkle of matchup-zone to have a chance against a team that can shoot long/mid and drive.

The defense call was not the problem

We went home with two timeouts in the pocket that could have been used to at least try to interrupt the three runs that killed us...
Q1 8:40 - 6:15 (10-3 run)
Q1 8:40 - 2:35 (24-11 run) ( first timeout taken at 2:35)

Q3 8:55 - 6:30 (10-3 run)
Q3 5:30 - 3:34 (10-1 run)
Q3 8:55 - 2:47 (22-10 run) (Second timeout taken at 2:47)

3rd and 4th timeout not used

Holding two timeouts for the end of a close game I agree withtotally,,,holding 3 or more on a potential blowout is not a good tactic,,,especially for a team that shows a propensity to let big runs get into their psyche.

people on here argue that time outs are not the solution
consider
after our Q2 bounce back Geno called 2 of his timeouts after 4 and 5 points runs
 
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#1,978
#1,978
Lurker said:
College players go to schools to play for coaches, not to wear the school colors like the fans. Move Pat to Vanderbilt in the early 1980's and it is almost a certainty there would never have been a Lady Vol tradition. "Anchor down" would have been the story. High school standouts aren't going to Columbia, SC for USC, they are going for Coach Staley. And heaven knows, no one goes to UConn for the campus or weather - they go for Geno who, despite his "sparkling personality," gets the job done on the court. It's the same in mens sports. Until UT gets a big dog coach, we will rinse and repeat - sometimes bad, sometimes better and never dominant like the fans aspire to.
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Mostly true, but once the school has a tradition then that brand lives for a while even if the team's success doesn't carry. I can imagine most of Holly's elite recruits wanted to play for Tennessee vs. play for Holly. But at some point, the shine on the brand wears off and what you said becomes more true.
 
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#1,980
#1,980
Amb3096 said:
Mostly true, but once the school has a tradition then that brand lives for a while even if the team's success doesn't carry. I can imagine most of Holly's elite recruits wanted to play for Tennessee vs. play for Holly. But at some point, the shine on the brand wears off and what you said becomes more true.
Click to expand...

Agree, generally. But, the glory years are decades old and UT's women's bball brand is long gone in all but the fans' minds. We remember vividly but most of today's high schoolers have never even heard of Pat Summitt.
 
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#1,981
#1,981
Coach Jumper said:
Exactly...high-paint pullups, mid-paint cuts and 3-5 ft out at the mid-key area are open for mid-range games. All they have to do with zone is hit a few threes and we open up a cavernous hole in the mid-range...You have to play man, with a little wrinkle of matchup-zone to have a chance against a team that can shoot long/mid and drive.

The defense call was not the problem

We went home with two timeouts in the pocket that could have been used to at least try to interrupt the three runs that killed us...
Q1 8:40 - 6:15 (10-3 run)
Q1 8:40 - 2:35 (24-11 run) ( first timeout taken at 2:35)

Q3 8:55 - 6:30 (10-3 run)
Q3 5:30 - 3:34 (10-1 run)
Q3 8:55 - 2:47 (22-10 run) (Second timeout taken at 2:47)

3rd and 4th timeout not used

people on here argue that time outs are not the solution
consider
after our Q2 bounce back Geno called 2 of his timeouts after 4 and 5 points runs
Click to expand...


First quarter was a disaster., After that, even during Uconn's ensuing runs, the LVs were getting a fair # of stops only to 1) miss a decent shot or 2) commit a TO. And in this game 1 was the real killer. If TOs would have allowed the LVs to make open shots, then by gawd she should have taken them. If they were going to continue 35%, then I am not sure anything would have helped.

We have two games where Rickea has been held more or less in check. Her mid range and that killer turn around have not been falling for (and she is taking less and less when it available), choosing to go in the lane where her tendencies are well scouted.

I thought Puckett might have broken out of her slump and she did hit a big three but missed open looks at key times.

Shooting more than anything has been this teams Achilles heel for the last two seasons.
 
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#1,982
#1,982
It was obvious last night that we lack speed at most positions. Moving forward, the nonsense of having Horston or Jackson coming off the bench needs to stop. Whatever reasoning being given is just pure B.S. When we play a center that's very mobile, Hollingshead needs to start. Franklin needs to be first off the bench inside. Never have Walker and Powell on the floor at the same time. Pissott should have been starting from the first game. She would have the experience needed by now. Jackson needs to be told to kick the ball out sometimes. She never looked Darby's way last night even when she was wide open. We have two great players in Horston and Jackson, but we love to stand around and watch them play. Moving the ball is critical to get open shots and we give a half effort at that part of the game. It seems we would rather pound the ball into the floor instead of whipping it around. We have a decent team, not a great team, but it's just not being utilized to its fullest potential at this time. Sometimes coaches don't know what they don't know.
 
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#1,985
#1,985
Coach Jumper said:
100% agree with this,,,she is much more mobile than Darby and equal or better shooter.
Lack of PT is hurting her more than anything.
If she had been used more, she WOULD be used more!
Click to expand...


I disagree she is right on the same level as Darby i think. lack of foot speed not a good defender or rebounder. And if she was better then Darby she would see the floor more. Just saying
 
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#1,987
#1,987
djtee said:
I disagree she is right on the same level as Darby i think. lack of foot speed not a good defender or rebounder. And if she was better then Darby she would see the floor more. Just saying
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If a junior and Freshman are on the same level, you play the younger one. Tess is a solid role player and her six points last night is great off the bench, not a starters numbers.
 
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#1,988
#1,988
My impression is the coaches think Justine's D is just as problematic as Tess' but she doesn't have Tess' experience and knowledge of the system. Tess' 3 pt shooting has been a little off the last couple of games, but she's shot 3s at about 40% all season. Not sure Justine would be better than that. I do want her to play though.
 
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#1,989
#1,989
djtee said:
I disagree she is right on the same level as Darby i think. lack of foot speed not a good defender or rebounder. And if she was better then Darby she would see the floor more. Just saying
Click to expand...

It is a common tendency for some fans to argue that the player who is not seeing a lot of time is "the answer" who would change everything with more playing time but the coach is too dumb or stubborn to do this very obvious thing.

It is a perfect narrative because it can't really be disproven. Why if Justine had played, the LVs just might have beaten Uconn!! I mean who knows for sure right? Since it did not play, all possibilities seem possible. Maybe she hits 15 treys and boom game OVAH!

Kourtney Dunbar was also the subject of this narrative, She presumably was an All-American game changer who the staff would not play for some inexplicable reason. The narrative tends to fall apart quickly when circumstances force the imagined player into being an actual player, as per Dunbar.

Now, Justine is an entirely different class of player than Dunbar and I am confident she is going to be massive for the LVs. She has been getting a bit more time and looking more confident on the offense end but she remains very shaky and indecisive on the defensive side and easily gets overwhelmed in faster paced game.

More likely, the LVs problems with TOs, defensive lapses, and fouls would have only gotten worse with JP on the court.

Tess is not a great defender but she is a solid and dependable one.

On the flipside, had Kellie committed to Justine from the beginning of the season, would she be further along and ready to contribute? Honestly, I would guess the answer is yes. In hindsight, it is easy to say that Kellie should have made this move because they lost all the pre-conference teams to ranked opponents anyway so not much would have changed in terms of outcomes. Of course that is hindsight. When you are trying to win each of those match-ups, it is hard to keep a deer in the headlights player on the court and that was Justine in those games whenever she got a cameo.
 
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#1,990
#1,990
glv98 said:
My impression is the coaches think Justine's D is just as problematic as Tess' but she doesn't have Tess' experience and knowledge of the system. Tess' 3 pt shooting has been a little off the last couple of games, but she's shot 3s at about 40% all season. Not sure Justine would be better than that. I do want her to play though.
Click to expand...
Have to cut Justine loose to play. Tess looks good in the light games but seems to disappear in the big games.
 
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#1,992
#1,992
Orange Maniac said:
It was obvious last night that we lack speed at most positions. Moving forward, the nonsense of having Horston or Jackson coming off the bench needs to stop. Whatever reasoning being given is just pure B.S. When we play a center that's very mobile, Hollingshead needs to start. Franklin needs to be first off the bench inside. Never have Walker and Powell on the floor at the same time. Pissott should have been starting from the first game. She would have the experience needed by now. Jackson needs to be told to kick the ball out sometimes. She never looked Darby's way last night even when she was wide open. We have two great players in Horston and Jackson, but we love to stand around and watch them play. Moving the ball is critical to get open shots and we give a half effort at that part of the game. It seems we would rather pound the ball into the floor instead of whipping it around. We have a decent team, not a great team, but it's just not being utilized to its fullest potential at this time. Sometimes coaches don't know what they don't know.
Click to expand...


Are you saying we don't have a very good coach who knows what players should be on the floor?
 
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#1,996
#1,996
We should be playing more zone. We don't have the team quickness/athleticism to play good man defense against
a good opponent. Puckett, Darby and Striplin don't have the quickness for man. I'm not sure Franklin does, either.
Jackson does have quickness and athleticism--but it's apparent that she plays defense at about a three-quarter intensity level. She is mostly upright when playing defense--as opposed to bending her knees and getting lower--and when you're upright you don't move as well laterally as you could
if you were playing lower. I'd like to see us play more matchup zone: It would keep our defenders from getting beat
so often off the dribble. Puckett could be effective playing zone. Of course you have to know your assignment and be active in a zone--and
not just stand around; you have to know where the opponents best shooters are and get out on them when they receive the ball; and you
have to be alert and intense about finding an opponent to block out when the ball is shot. It's an open question as to whether we could
do those things against a good opponent--but I'd like to see Harper try it. UConn scored 61 points in the 1st and 3rd quarters: that's about
as bad defensively as it gets.
 
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#1,997
#1,997
madtownvol said:
On the flipside, had Kellie committed to Justine from the beginning of the season, would she be further along and ready to contribute? Honestly, I would guess the answer is yes. In hindsight, it is easy to say that Kellie should have made this move because they lost all the pre-conference teams to ranked opponents anyway so not much would have changed in terms of outcomes. Of course that is hindsight. When you are trying to win each of those match-ups, it is hard to keep a deer in the headlights player on the court and that was Justine in those games whenever she got a cameo.
Click to expand...

That's where Kellie just needed to play her more against the likes of Vandy, TAMU, Florida, etc. Ashlyn Watkins was rated about the same coming out of HS, but is so much further along because Dawn will play her a lot of minutes against weaker opponents. Either Tennessee lets the game stay too close to gamble with reserves, or Kellie just gets fixated with a certain rotation instead of thinking about the future more.
 
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#1,998
#1,998
Coach Jumper said:
Exactly...high-paint pullups, mid-paint cuts and 3-5 ft out at the mid-key area are open for mid-range games. All they have to do with zone is hit a few threes and we open up a cavernous hole in the mid-range...You have to play man, with a little wrinkle of matchup-zone to have a chance against a team that can shoot long/mid and drive.

The defense call was not the problem

We went home with two timeouts in the pocket that could have been used to at least try to interrupt the three runs that killed us...
Q1 8:40 - 6:15 (10-3 run)
Q1 8:40 - 2:35 (24-11 run) ( first timeout taken at 2:35)

Q3 8:55 - 6:30 (10-3 run)
Q3 5:30 - 3:34 (10-1 run)
Q3 8:55 - 2:47 (22-10 run) (Second timeout taken at 2:47)

3rd and 4th timeout not used

Holding two timeouts for the end of a close game I agree withtotally,,,holding 3 or more on a potential blowout is not a good tactic,,,especially for a team that shows a propensity to let big runs get into their psyche.

people on here argue that time outs are not the solution
consider
after our Q2 bounce back Geno called 2 of his timeouts after 4 and 5 points runs
Click to expand...

You said you are 100% behind Harper, then don't question her timeouts!! Now if you have finally realized we need a real coach, then perhaps your comments are good.
 
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#1,999
#1,999
Coach Jumper said:
100% agree with this,,,she is much more mobile than Darby and equal or better shooter.
Lack of PT is hurting her more than anything.
If she had been used more, she WOULD be used more!
Click to expand...

I agree to infinity on this thought....Justine is being used like an afterthought by this coaching staff...She mostly just sits on the bench and watches, and watches...She may get tired of just watching and take her talents someplace else....

The girl needs some serious court time to become the player we all hope she can become...Purest stroke on the team and she just watches....

Watch the first minute of the game and look how lost Darby becomes...She doesn't even know where her man is...Justine could not have done worse.
11411728.jpg
 
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#2,000
#2,000
Simply put, you must have elite players to play at an elite level. Occasionally, well-coached experienced teams can beat a more talented team but it's not a formula for success at the highest level.
 
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