Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[youcancallmeAl]

Because it was convenient to settle for Kellie which says he made minimal effort. And actually I am paying for it, as a resident of Tennessee who pays taxes and fan who buys the drinks and popcorn. Based off your throw money, you get what you pay for.

So you think your popcorn money pays the diff from a good coach to a great coach? Did you call Fulmer and tell him you had a few hundred grand to put in the pot for the hire he was considering?

And on what verifiable basis - on what source - do you maintain that Fulmer made "minimal" effort, and "settled" for Kellie simply because it was convenient. Were you a fly on the wall? Did you somehow find his phone log of calls during that period? Dozens of people have made that claim on this forum, but like you none of them have presented the verifiable facts of the matter that prove it true. Without proof, I say its just another myth propagated by the Legions of the Miserable of our fan base.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I really do not know how to judge Jon Harper, but when coaches are having problems the usual solution is examining her staff. It appears she needs some help in the development of her talent and especially in assembling her team. Lots of redundancy if many on our bench would be starting at other top programs as Coach Jumper said. Is the system Coach Harper using both offensively and defensively getting in the way of the teams success? She has the players she has until another recruiting cycle, does she need to adjust play to utilize the players she has?

What's with the attacks on John Harper from you and others? How do you know what he does or dosn't do for the program, or how valuable or not valuable he is? Besides, it's a mute point. The SOLE responsibility for the team's performance lies with the Head Coach. If she has a staff member who isn't contributing as much as he/she could, that's strictly and only on the head coach, since all assistants serve at her pleasure.

 

[Majors]

So you think your popcorn money pays the diff from a good coach to a great coach? Did you call Fulmer and tell him you had a few hundred grand to put in the pot for the hire he was considering?

And on what verifiable basis - on what source - do you maintain that Fulmer made "minimal" effort, and "settled" for Kellie simply because it was convenient. Were you a fly on the wall? Did you somehow find his phone log of calls during that period? Dozens of people have made that claim on this forum, but like you none of them have presented the verifiable facts of the matter that prove it true. Without proof, I say it’s just another myth propagated by the Legions of the Miserable of our fan base.

Drinks and popcorn was a reference to Mike Hamilton in regards to his empty arena under Buzz.

Verifiable proof? Lady Vols should never have to dip into the mid-majors to get a coach. All the proof one needs.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Thats wild when she was asked if she got any calls about the tennessee job she seemed a bit disappointed when stated "No , i did not even get an interview" which implies she applied and got ignored.

Why is it wild that she would not have been called? She had never been a head coach at any level prior to that.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Drinks and popcorn was a reference to Mike Hamilton in regards to his empty arena under Buzz.

Verifiable proof? Lady Vols should never have to dip into the mid-majors to get a coach. All the proof one needs.

Again, you don't know who else would have taken the job if offered, and you don't know how much money the Athletic Department could afford at the time. And you don't know if Fu;lmer called some elite coaches or other head coaches and got turned down because of the hot mess the athletic department and the administration was at the time and/or they didn't have the money for a home run hire. Recall that the money maker of ALL of the sports - football - was drowning in debt at the time. YOu might recall that after the Schiano fiasco and Fulmer hiring, this athletic department had a toxic mess reputation. So it could be that they HAD to take a mid-major coach and made what they thought was the best of it. After all, Kellie did just take her mid-major team to the SS of the national tournament. And she was a very experienced head coach.

 

[Majors]

Again, you don't know who else would have taken the job if offered, and you don't know how much money the Athletic Department could afford at the time. And you don't know if Fu;lmer called some elite coaches or other head coaches and got turned down because of the hot mess the athletic department and the administration was at the time and/or they didn't have the money for a home run hire. Recall that the money maker of ALL of the sports - football - was drowning in debt at the time. YOu might recall that after the Schiano fiasco and Fulmer hiring, this athletic department had a toxic mess reputation. So it could be that they HAD to take a mid-major coach and made what they thought was the best of it. After all, Kellie did just take her mid-major team to the SS of the national tournament. And she was a very experienced head coach.

So settled because of convenience.

 

[glv98]

Raise your hand if you could have imagined a month ago that 3 games in we'd be recycling the tired AF Kellie hire debate. Unbelievable.
Any word on Jordan? I wonder if she's practicing? Please get well soon.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

So settled because of convenience.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if you can't support it. Besides, what difference does it make? Kellie is the coach, Fulmer is gone, and the football program is the goose that laid the golden egg again. All of the discussion about why and how Kellie was hired is irrelevant.

 

[Majors]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if you can't support it. Besides, what difference does it make? Kellie is the coach, Fulmer is gone, and the football program is the goose that laid the golden egg again. All of the discussion about why and how Kellie was hired is irrelevant.

Can you support that a better offer was rejected and the financial terms? I’ll hang up and listen. I can support a coach making mid-major money was hired. That’s not an opinion

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Can you support that a better offer was rejected and the financial terms? I’ll hang up and listen. I can support a coach making mid-major money was hired. That’s not an opinion

I'm not the one making any claims. You are. Burden of proof for those claims is on you.

 

[Majors]

I'm not the one making any claims. You are. Burden of proof for those claims is on you.

You’re stating how do I know. You know by who was hired. That’s your proof. Again, this is still The Lady Vols brand you don’t pluck mid-majors. Do you need proof on that?

 

[Darth_Vol]

Which goes back to the criticism of what does he bring to the table

I've gotten crushed for years for daring to ask exactly what he contributes to the program. I have yet to hear a good answer...

 

[northknoxvol]

She needs to somehow get her players to realize that every night you step on the floor you are getting the opponents best shot. You have a target on your back for putting the Lady Vol uniform on your body. The opposing coaches are going to come with their best gameplan to beat you because it matters to win a game against the Lady Vols. Coach and Team needs to step it up or get runned over!

 

[Majors]

I've gotten crushed for years for daring to ask exactly what he contributes to the program. I have yet to hear a good answer...

it’s a valid question. If you’re a limited coach you better be lights out in recruiting, if you’re a strong recruiter it gets overlooked in regards to coaching inability. Have to be one or the other…Pat surrounded herself with both

 

[Rickster]

By all accounts, Jon is a fine coach and an even better person.

 

[glv98]

I've gotten crushed for years for daring to ask exactly what he contributes to the program. I have yet to hear a good answer...

What do any of the assistants contribute? They all have their areas of responsibility but its kind of hard to quanitfy their individual worth. I guess you could go by the success or failure of the position they coach, but I think that shifts around. Jon is supposedly in charge of post play, but I believe we've been told Coach Sam actually works with TK.

Fortunately for them, the Head Coach gets to decide if the assistants are worth their paychecks, not us.

 

[Rickster]

What evidence is there that Jon is not doing well? Is Jon deemed low hanging fruit for those that are hoping for change? It's just stupid to go after a coach for no reason.

 

[glv98]

Is Jon deemed low hanging fruit for those that are hoping for change?

Yep he's low hanging fruit being picked on. Apparently just the idea of spouses working together is triggering for some folks. Which is weird in this situation bc the Harpers have been doing it for so long being spouses seems to not be a factor in their working relationship, at least not that I've ever observed in their interactions. Many fans don't even know they're married. All credit to them, I could never pull that off but they do. Yet when times get rocky, that arrangement (agreed to when they were hired) is easy pickins.

 

[Voluble2]

So you think your popcorn money pays the diff from a good coach to a great coach? Did you call Fulmer and tell him you had a few hundred grand to put in the pot for the hire he was considering?

And on what verifiable basis - on what source - do you maintain that Fulmer made "minimal" effort, and "settled" for Kellie simply because it was convenient. Were you a fly on the wall? Did you somehow find his phone log of calls during that period? Dozens of people have made that claim on this forum, but like you none of them have presented the verifiable facts of the matter that prove it true. Without proof, I say its just another myth propagated by the Legions of the Miserable of our fan base.

Fulmer said himself he set out to hire the best coach available, but was talked into hiring a former Lady Vol. He could have been lying about that, but it paints neither him, the program, or the boosters/supporters telling him these things in a good light so I tend to believe admissions against self-interest. He is the most authoritative source it is possible to have.

And that is typical of Fulmer. Even if that was his motivation he should never have said it to anyone. But he thought it put him in the clear if things went badly and made him look sensitive, or if it went well then he would get credit for the pick so it was a win-win for him. He was always a political animal.

 

[Twinsbornoncampus]

If you want to make a pass and if you execute the pass with one looping arm motion if things change you cannot stop the pass, but if you use a more traditional approach then you can change your mind. As far as possessions go, you get alternate possessions so the two teams will have the same amount of shot attempts . You get more by rebounding, steals, and turnovers. Personnel that are committing 20% of the turnovers need to understand why they are losing. I say we were a better team than Louisville but we outperformed them on giving up turnovers. Are you suggesting that other teams are executing better that we can? I believe we can execute better and that is why I said anything at all.

I may be wrong but if one team can limit their turnovers to ten a game why can’t we do the same. Turnovers are not the symptom of a championship team. I don’t believe that 30 turnovers is something we have to live with. It only takes an attitude Adjustment. Anyone Who feels that turnovers don’t affect the outcome is sick.

 

[glv98]

Turnovers are not the symptom of a championship team. I don’t believe that 30 turnovers is something we have to live with. It only takes an attitude Adjustment. Anyone Who feels that turnovers don’t affect the outcome is sick.

Anyone who feels that turnovers can be fixed simply with an "attitude adjustment" is dreamin'.

 

[Darth_Vol]

By all accounts, Jon is a fine coach and an even better person.

What do any of the assistants contribute? .

Like I said, I have yet to hear a good answer...

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Fulmer said himself he set out to hire the best coach available, but was talked into hiring a former Lady Vol. He could have been lying about that, but it paints neither him, the program, or the boosters/supporters telling him these things in a good light so I tend to believe admissions against self-interest. He is the most authoritative source it is possible to have.

And that is typical of Fulmer. Even if that was his motivation he should never have said it to anyone. But he thought it put him in the clear if things went badly and made him look sensitive, or if it went well then he would get credit for the pick so it was a win-win for him. He was always a political animal.

Sounds like you personally despise Fulmer. Pursuing your own agenda here? Here's the exact quote:

“I was a bit in the mindset of, ‘We need to find the best coach. Male, female, Lady Vol, not, just whoever is going to be the best at this moment,’ ” Fulmer said. “I’m telling you, it became very clear to me as the interview process started that we had our choice in the country of coaches to talk to.

“As we went through a grinding process — and our staff did a grinding search — it became clear that a Lady Vol would be really great,” he added. “Then Kellie knocked it [her interview] out of the park.”

Sounds to me a lot different than your take: He said he DID conduct a thorough search of the best candidates and concluded that Harper was the best candidate he could find. Now, maybe he was lying there. I don't know. Unlike so many on this board, I don't read minds. But what he said clearly does not support you and others narrative that 'Fulmer confessed to hiring a lesser candidate just because she was a LVFL.'

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Like I said, I have yet to hear a good answer...

That's because none of us are in a position to know for sure the answer to your question, including you. If you were a fair minded person and not someone on a vendetta of personal malice, you would have asked the question this way: "Who here that claims to know that Jon Harper does not pull his weight in this program can offer any material evidence to support that claim?"

 

[Voluble2]

Sounds like you personally despise Fulmer. Pursuing your own agenda here? Here's the exact quote:

“I was a bit in the mindset of, ‘We need to find the best coach. Male, female, Lady Vol, not, just whoever is going to be the best at this moment,’ ” Fulmer said. “I’m telling you, it became very clear to me as the interview process started that we had our choice in the country of coaches to talk to.

“As we went through a grinding process — and our staff did a grinding search — it became clear that a Lady Vol would be really great,” he added. “Then Kellie knocked it [her interview] out of the park.”

Sounds to me a lot different than your take: He said he DID conduct a thorough search of the best candidates and concluded that Harper was the best candidate he could find. Now, maybe he was lying there. I don't know. Unlike so many on this board, I don't read minds. But what he said clearly does not support you and others narrative that 'Fulmer confessed to hiring a lesser candidate just because she was a LVFL.'

He said it there more diplomatically, and he said it more explicitly elsewhere. It was not a big secret at the time that he had his arm twisted and took the path of least resistance. Your problem is that a lot of us have been around long enough to remember.