Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Majors]

OK, advice noted. The major universities Jon Harper has worked for the last 20 years have all found his skills best used as an assistant basketball coach though.

IMO any husband taking on a behind the scenes advisor role would immediately be called out for taking over, being the brains behind the operation. I've always been very impressed that Jon is so comfortable working as a subordinate to his wife, as he always has. Great example for his little boy and all others. If anything, I think it modernizes the UT brand. There are new ways of working, especially for young families.

That is why I said at best. The person/husband/father is not in question, the coach is. What does he bring to the table at $140K a year?

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Year four of the KJK tenure hasn't gotten off to a great start. I will say the team looked pretty disjointed most of the game against IU whereas the Hoosiers appeared to be locked in.

Harper bears responsibility for some of this no doubt. I'm not ready to throw her out to the wolves yet but the team has a lot, lot more work to do. Clearly they were ranked too high coming in. I am reminded of how enthusiastic everyone was in fall 2015 when, after losing in the E8 to Maryland, Diamond arrived and fans got very excited about the team. They started strong but tailed off, only to turn it around and lose in the E8.

This team hopefully won't follow that pattern.

 

[glv98]

That is why I said at best. The person/husband/father is not in question, the coach is. What does he bring to the table at $140K a year?

The person/husband/father is never not brought up, usually first thing, in any criticism of him. Like in your post. Criticism of his worth as a coach is totally fair game. I just want him to have a dang breakthru with Tamari Key.

 

[JFP]

Successful screens for 3 pointers and there would not be so much doom and gloom.

Is there such a thing as good plays to successfully screen for 3 point shooters? I looked for some in an old playbook and it didn't have any. Getting set for longer rebounds would need to be included. 3 point shooters scrambling for openings usually find more corner shots and a lot of that action is in vogue.

 

[Majors]

I just want him to have a dang breakthru with Tamari Key.

Which goes back to the criticism of what does he bring to the table

 

[Rickster]

Year four of the KJK tenure hasn't gotten off to a great start. I will say the team looked pretty disjointed most of the game against IU whereas the Hoosiers appeared to be locked in.

Harper bears responsibility for some of this no doubt. I'm not ready to throw her out to the wolves yet but the team has a lot, lot more work to do. Clearly they were ranked too high coming in. I am reminded of how enthusiastic everyone was in fall 2015 when, after losing in the E8 to Maryland, Diamond arrived and fans got very excited about the team. They started strong but tailed off, only to turn it around and lose in the E8.

This team hopefully won't follow that pattern.

Aren't you a MSU or Ole miss fan?

 

[Amb3096]

Is there such a thing as good plays to successfully screen for 3 point shooters? I looked for some in an old playbook and it didn't have any. Getting set for longer rebounds would need to be included. 3 point shooters scrambling for openings usually find more corner shots and a lot of that action is in vogue.

Watch some of the MSST games when Blair Shaeffer was on the court. They used double screens like crazy to free her up. Often times, she would set a screen for Vivians and then pop out for an open 3. They started 5'4, 5'7, 5'7 and 6'1 in the backcourt along with 6'7 McCowan inside and played 4-out, 1-in, and all of the perimeter players could shoot. They were a deadly three point shooting team even though 2 of their 3 main threats (Johnson and Shaeffer) weren't particularly good at creating their own shot.

 

[turbovol]

Which goes back to the criticism of what does he bring to the table

Husband/wife teams are generally to be avoided--and rightly so. The head coach is not going to hold his or her spouse to the same standard as his/her
other assistants. S/he might fire an assistant--but it won't be the assistant to whom he or she is married. So it's not a kosher situation. Fulmer should not have allowed it, IMO. Of course we had the Weeklys in softball, which worked for quite some time and then began to fray. I am opposed to husband/wife coaching teams.

 

[Majors]

Husband/wife teams are generally to be avoided--and rightly so. The head coach is not going to hold his or her spouse to the same standard as his/her
other assistants. S/he might fire an assistant--but it won't be the assistant to whom he or she is married. So it's not a kosher situation. Fulmer should not have allowed it, IMO. Of course we had the Weeklys in softball, which worked for quite some time and then began to fray. I am opposed to husband/wife coaching teams.

Absolutely needed to be handled on the front end. The Weekly's were able to make it work for most of their time here together... both were considered elite recruiters and that showed up on the field during the early 2000's which gave them equity.

 

[plumbervol]

I really do not know how to judge Jon Harper, but when coaches are having problems the usual solution is examining her staff. It appears she needs some help in the development of her talent and especially in assembling her team. Lots of redundancy if many on our bench would be starting at other top programs as Coach Jumper said. Is the system Coach Harper using both offensively and defensively getting in the way of the teams success? She has the players she has until another recruiting cycle, does she need to adjust play to utilize the players she has?

Key is a very big lady with some skills, physical play does not seem to be her thing. She can block shots but she always seems out of place playing defense and gets her self in trouble. Is there anybody on that team that could just rebound block out and play physical with a line up of let say Rickea, Horston and a couple of guards on the perimeter? Anybody quick enough to allow Darby to play a two with maybe Miles or Powell at PG and Rickea and Horston on the wings with a fireplug under the basket?

 

[youcancallmeAl]

That moment when the same people who hurled personal insults at me for years for my opinion of Kellie come to the sobering realization: "Darth was right..."

You attackcd her personally, and viciously. For that you were wrong. You also failed to give her a chance, or any benefit of the doubt. For that you were wrong, too. If all UT fans were like you, her program would have crashed and burned in the first year, and Tennessee would have been much worse off for it than giving her a reasonable chance.

And the final chapter for this season and her time at Tennessee hasn't been written yet, so don't take your victory lap too soon.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

RE Lawson: She had zero coaching experience, so hiring her would have been a pretty serious risk.. The real problem was that Fulmer was lazy, apparently settled on either Lawson or Harper pretty quickly, and that was that.

That's the conventional wisdom here. Are you and the others saying a LVFL shouldn't be hired just because they are a LVFL? Again, who was available that Fulmer could have hired who would have been an obviously better hire? And what financial constraints was he under at the time, given that the football program was hemorrhaging big money. Hindsight is always 20/20. Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you cast so many stones at him.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

I hate it like heck, but I'm beginning to think that as well. But I don't think its going to light any fires, I'm sure TK does the best she can. We're at the "is what it is" stage w TK, so I think we need to start developing Jillian for the future pronto.


I'm pretty sure its been confirmed repeatedly that Kara Lawson said at the time she had NO interest in coaching and turned the LV job down before it could be offered. Which made it kind of uncomfortable when she suddenly grew a keen interest in coaching and took the Duke job shortly after. Kara turned the LVs down, not vice versa. UT would have hired her in a nanosecond if she wanted the job.

Are ya really this time? Because you bid us a dramatic adieu a few days ago. Didn't know how many diva exits you had in you.

Thats wild when she was asked if she got any calls about the tennessee job she seemed a bit disappointed when stated "No , i did not even get an interview" which implies she applied and got ignored.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

That's the conventional wisdom here. Are you and the others saying a LVFL shouldn't be hired just because they are a LVFL? Again, who was available that Fulmer could have hired who would have been an obviously better hire? And what financial constraints was he under at the time, given that the football program was hemorrhaging big money. Hindsight is always 20/20. Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you cast so many stones at him.

Who was available ? Kyra Elzy for one , was still an AC at kentucky and im sure would have jumped ship to come home. Happy she's the defending SEC tourney champion right now so it worked in her favor. Gregg Brown , Niya Butts , Mickie Demoss , Nancy Darsh , Carolyn Peck , Semeka Randall , I would add Fargas and Mccray - Penson , but their results hinder their consideration ....BUT BUT BUT Kellie's did not so why not add them right ?

 

[xtpsrh08123]

Now, this is all a testament to just how many people who worked with Summitt went on to have great coaching careers. Kara Lawson, who said on Monday that her mom actually wanted to go to Duke, according to the AP, is part of that overall tradition.

Given how elite her coaching tree is, she would naturally have players go to rival schools. Anybody who follows Lawson, though, knows she was an extremely smart player. Her understanding of the game and her personality make her a great fit to be a head coach.
Playing for Summitt and working under Brad Stevens can only make her more prepared. As a result, Kara Lawson is another player forcing Lady Vol fans to root for a school that was once a rival. She is also another player that serves as proof of how great Summitt’s influence was.

 

[GameTime]

Since this thread is a discussion about Kellie and her coaching tactics so far this season, I have to join in...

By letting Ohio State run off 18 consecutive points against the LVs, and not call a timeout to hopefully break the momentum OS was on, had to have set wrong with her team members...I still can't believe she did that...That act alone started fans wondering what the hell is going on with this woman...It shook my belief system in her coaching ability....

During interviews she stated this particular team needed to be punched in the mouth (her words) to see who they are, that is why she scheduled top teams this early....Perhaps, that is why she left her team at the mercy of OS onslaught in that game...It was her call.

The last few games she has called timeout when the other team went on a scoring run against us...This board was amazed in the game thread she called timeout...A few fun posts ensued...

What has us LV fans worried is not just the two early losses, but how inept we have looked at times in those losses, and the questionable coaching decisions that have been gone over at great lengths by many of us....Not because we dislike Kellie, but we want Kellie to succeed...

In the movie Hoosiers, coach Norman Dale allows his team to take a few beatings to get his team to obey his coaching philosophies....Right or wrong, they are his philosophies and they will be followed, or you will sit on the bench.....

He also went on to say they were 5 individual players on the floor, working as one single unit, working for the good of the team.....Team! Team! Team!

Of course it helps to have a Jimmy Chitwood join the team and help bring coach Dales philosophy to fruition...Jimmy Chitwood could shoot lights out baby (I met him, the actor, in Valencia, Ca....He never made his high school team)

I say to you my good friends, we have our own Jimmy Chitwood clone sitting on the bench, awaiting her turn to "make that shot"...She wears #13...She's 6'4" tall, "and has the shooting range of a shooting star!"...

Yes my good friends, the help we need is sitting on the bench...Unleash the Justine!

 

[Majors]

That's the conventional wisdom here. Are you and the others saying a LVFL shouldn't be hired just because they are a LVFL? Again, who was available that Fulmer could have hired who would have been an obviously better hire? And what financial constraints was he under at the time, given that the football program was hemorrhaging big money. Hindsight is always 20/20. Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you cast so many stones at him.

Any coach in America not named Geno, Tara or Dawn... after that you pick and the phone and call the AD and say the Lady Vols would like to speak to your coach.

 

[JFP]

Watch some of the MSST games when Blair Shaeffer was on the court. They used double screens like crazy to free her up. Often times, she would set a screen for Vivians and then pop out for an open 3. They started 5'4, 5'7, 5'7 and 6'1 in the backcourt along with 6'7 McCowan inside and played 4-out, 1-in, and all of the perimeter players could shoot. They were a deadly three point shooting team even though 2 of their 3 main threats (Johnson and Shaeffer) weren't particularly good at creating their own shot.

I hope the Lady Vols coaches read your post. What you are writing makes absolutely good sense for this team and there are taller 3 point shooters on this team.

 

[xtpsrh08123]

Since this thread is a discussion about Kellie and her coaching tactics so far this season, I have to join in...

By letting Ohio State run off 18 consecutive points against the LVs, and not call a timeout to hopefully break the momentum OS was on, had to have set wrong with her team members...I still can't believe she did that...That act alone started fans wondering what the hell is going on with this woman...It shook my belief system in her coaching ability....

During interviews she stated this particular team needed to be punched in the mouth (her words) to see who they are, that is why she scheduled top teams this early....Perhaps, that is why she left her team at the mercy of OS onslaught in that game...It was her call.

The last few games she has called timeout when the other team went on a scoring run against us...This board was amazed in the game thread she called timeout...A few fun posts ensued...

What has us LV fans worried is not just the two early losses, but how inept we have looked at times in those losses, and the questionable coaching decisions that have been gone over at great lengths by many of us....Not because we dislike Kellie, but we want Kellie to succeed...

In the movie Hoosiers, coach Norman Dale allows his team to take a few beatings to get his team to obey his coaching philosophies....Right or wrong, they are his philosophies and they will be followed, or you will sit on the bench.....

He also went on to say they were 5 individual players on the floor, working as one single unit, working for the good of the team.....Team! Team! Team!

Of course it helps to have a Jimmy Chitwood join the team and help bring coach Dales philosophy to fruition...Jimmy Chitwood could shoot lights out baby (I met him, the actor, in Valencia, Ca....He never made his high school team)

I say to you my good friends, we have our own Jimmy Chitwood clone sitting on the bench, awaiting her turn to "make that shot"...She wears #13...She's 6'4" tall, "and has the shooting range of a shooting star!"...

Yes my good friends, the help we need is sitting on the bench...Unleash the Justine!

Well said i share the exact sentiments on each topic listed here. Thank you

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Aren't you a MSU or Ole miss fan?

I am a Mississippi State graduate, LVs fan since my youth. I'm all around a fan of the sport and follow most of the top teams closely.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Any coach in America not named Geno, Tara or Dawn... after that you pick and the phone and call the AD and say the Lady Vols would like to speak to your coach.

How do you know Fulmer didn't do that and got turned down over money? And why not call Geno, Tara, or Dawn? After all, our uber-demando fan base will only accept the best, and will only accept a nattie every other year at the least. So why not start with the best and throw as much money at them as it takes the way LSU did with Mulkey and Bama did with Saban? And cost is no issue with you, because you aren't paying for it?

 

[Majors]

How do you know Fulmer didn't do that and got turned down over money? And why not call Geno, Tara, or Dawn? After all, our uber-demando fan base will only accept the best, and will only accept a nattie every other year at the least. So why not start with the best and throw as much money at them as it takes the way LSU did with Mulkey and Bama did with Saban? And cost is no issue with you, because you aren't paying for it?

Because it was convenient to settle for Kellie which says he made minimal effort. And actually I am paying for it, as a resident of Tennessee who pays taxes and fan who buys the drinks and popcorn. Based off your throw money, you get what you pay for.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Who was available ? Kyra Elzy for one , was still an AC at kentucky and im sure would have jumped ship to come home. Happy she's the defending SEC tourney champion right now so it worked in her favor. Gregg Brown , Niya Butts , Mickie Demoss , Nancy Darsh , Carolyn Peck , Semeka Randall , I would add Fargas and Mccray - Penson , but their results hinder their consideration ....BUT BUT BUT Kellie's did not so why not add them right ?

BUT, BUT, But, But............hiring a LVFL is the LAZY way to do things, and the way to be a cheapskate with coaching salaries, isn't it? Isn't that what the wisest ones on this board are saying? Aren't they saying "Whatever you do, DON'T hire a LVFL!!" And - heavens to besty - hiring an AC to take the HC job at a place where only Natties will be sufficient performance? The hollering would never stop until she was fired if she didn't win a nattie in her first year.

 

[Coach Jumper]

The person/husband/father is never not brought up, usually first thing, in any criticism of him. Like in your post. Criticism of his worth as a coach is totally fair game. I just want him to have a dang breakthru with Tamari Key.

exactly...and it is time for the posts to show progress.
Give me either one of these kids for a summer and they're WILL! be progress!

 

[Rickster]

Im jumping ship....Bye you all its been a great 30 years but i cant bare to watch this anymore. Pat would not approve of anything being done in Knoxville right now smh .

I stated i will always root for this team , there's no coming back to be done. Will i invest emotions and feelings HELL NO . Final 4 happens i will jump for joy but that does not mean im investing .

You said you're jumping ship. What happened?