War in Ukraine

[BreatheUT]

Zelensky Asks for $55 Billion to Cover Budget Deficit and Fund Reconstruction - News From Antiwar.com

How long are we gonna be giving these bums money?

As long as it takes to put the final nails in our economy.

 

[BreatheUT]

Zelensky Asks for $55 Billion to Cover Budget Deficit and Fund Reconstruction - News From Antiwar.com

How long are we gonna be giving these bums money?

As long as it takes to put the final nails in our economy.

I'm glad I wasn't that gullible. It's too bad Pat Tillman drank the Kool Aid, because he seemed like a decent guy.

I did too for a while. The way Biden pulled out of Afghanistan makes Tillman's dedication and service seem in vain.

 

[AM64]

I don't know if Russia can even be considered a threat. They couldn't even beat Ukraine. In fact, they never got close to defeating Ukraine, even before our corrupt politicians started sending zelensky 10s of billions of dollars and military equipment with no strings attached.

There are two reasons we have a large standing military and a nuclear arsenal. Anytime somebody wants to pare one of them down to size and has realistic hope of doing so, I vote for supporting them. Seems like a lot of what we learned during the Cold War is being lost; too bad when your generations have to learn it all over again. It also seems to me that if you reduce a country's will to fight by proving them incompetent (especially with someone else's military) then the people of that country are less likely to want an aggressive leader. Based on the WW2 experience if a country faces strong opposition (perhaps a real mutual defense pact - not empty promise), they would probably be less likely to initiate or be successful in dragging the rest of the world into the conflict. Isolationism hasn't been a strategy since sailing ships were replaced by modern implements of war.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There are two reasons we have a large standing military and a nuclear arsenal. Anytime somebody wants to pare one of them down to size and has realistic hope of doing so, I vote for supporting them. Seems like a lot of what we learned during the Cold War is being lost; too bad when your generations have to learn it all over again. It also seems to me that if you reduce a country's will to fight by proving them incompetent (especially with someone else's military) then the people of that country are less likely to want an aggressive leader. Based on the WW2 experience if a country faces strong opposition (perhaps a real mutual defense pact - not empty promise), they would probably be less likely to initiate or be successful in dragging the rest of the world into the conflict. Isolationism hasn't been a strategy since sailing ships were replaced by modern implements of war.

Non-intervention, not isolationism. I don't know why you people continue to distort between the two. Some things simply don't require us to be involved. World War I is the perfect example. We had no business being involved in what amounted to a European circular firing squad. You people continue to use this weak narrative that "isolationism" only worked before modern warefare when the real truth is that a majority of conflict could easily be resolved with honest diplomacy and mutually beneficial commerce... the very things George Washington spoke about in his farewell address. Gunboat diplomacy and a rapacious foreign policy where we go across the globe and take advantage of sh^thole countries' resources requires us to be engaged in all of these bullsh^t conflicts.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Isn't that a bit like discussing the origins of the US population? Or are you going the hyphenated nationality route - "we're here, but we aren't one of you"?

Dude, stop the crap. These people were considered to be in the same country as the rest of Russia since the 1780s when it was Novorossiya. During tsarist Russia and during the Soviet Union, it was within the same country. Then, through no fault of their own in 1991, they were separated and split from the motherland. You know good and damn well that it is unreasonable to require these people to move off of the land that they have spent decades/centuries living on because of some political fluke. Had the Obama State Department not gone in and disturbed things in 2013/2014, they would still be in Ukraine living in peace. But once the leadership they helped to elect in 2010 was overthrown, then it is to be expected that they would be pizzed and would consider the new leadership to be illegitate... no different than how I feel right now about the 2020 election and my feelings about Joe Biden being illegitmate. In both instances, an election was stolen from the people. This really isn't hard to understand, but you guys have this visceral hatred for Russians that is carried over from the Cold War that is simply irrational and becoming increasingly dangerous to mankind. You can't even do the simple thing of sympathizing with the Russian population living in these regions and put yourselves in their shoes since 2014 because you don't consider their grievances legitimate... because they are Russians (or Slavs), they are subhuman or inferior.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Nomadic or semi-nomadic ne'er-do-wells meeting dedicated nation builders who have actually done something with the place. A lot like evolution - get better or perish. Pretty simple really Palestinians were slackers, and Israelis were doers. BTW, I don't see Russian culture/civilization much better than third world goat herders.

Sounds like you are describing the Kurds...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Nomadic or semi-nomadic ne'er-do-wells meeting dedicated nation builders who have actually done something with the place. A lot like evolution - get better or perish. Pretty simple really Palestinians were slackers, and Israelis were doers. BTW, I don't see Russian culture/civilization much better than third world goat herders.

That is obvious. You are a clown for thinking that, however.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That kind of thing happens when Russians have wanted to kill or conquer you for a few decades - just doesn't build a lot of trust, fond memories, or forgiveness.

And again, you are unable to separate or make a distinction between the Soviets and present day Russian Federation. And even then, I think there was a lot that could have been done during the Cold War that could havedriven down the anxiety and animosity between the 2 of us. No reason in the world why we couldn't and shouldn't be close allies with Russia. And truthfully, from the time of Catherine the Great until the Cold War, we were allies and friendly with each other. You lack historical perspective and are driven by your old Cold War biases.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ukraine is weakening and destabilizing a terrorist state; they are earning what we send them. We aren't supplying aid for no benefit; and for a change we are reducing a threat without using our own people in the battle.

What terrorist state is actually being weakened at this moment? All I see right now is France about to turn into a powder keg, Britain on the verge of having yet anothe prime minister being ousted in the near future, protests over energy and rising costs of living all across the rest of Europe along with govts flipping and the current leadership in the US facing a potential rout in the next few weeks at midterms because of our economic situation.

Meanwhile, Russia has the best performing currency on the planet, Putin is out here cutting economic deals with countries that represent the majority of humanity and the military machine has been two weeks away from running out of steam for the past 6 months.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't know if Russia can even be considered a threat. They couldn't even beat Ukraine. In fact, they never got close to defeating Ukraine, even before our corrupt politicians started sending zelensky 10s of billions of dollars and military equipment with no strings attached.

Russia didn't go into this with the full force and weight of their military. Putin, to a certain extent, is an idealist that actually believed that if he showed force early on, that he could facilitate a quick diplomatic solution. And it almost worked up until Boris Johnson and the US stepped in back in March/April and killed the deal the Ukrainians had in Ankara.

 

[tvolsfan]

Russia didn't go into this with the full force and weight of their military. Putin, to a certain extent, is an idealist that actually believed that if he showed force early on, that he could facilitate a quick diplomatic solution. And it almost worked up until Boris Johnson and the US stepped in back in March/April and killed the deal the Ukrainians had in Ankara.

Right, the deal Russia kept pretending they wanted before they pressed on with the land grab they actually wanted.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Russia didn't go into this with the full force and weight of their military. Putin, to a certain extent, is an idealist that actually believed that if he showed force early on, that he could facilitate a quick diplomatic solution. And it almost worked up until Boris Johnson and the US stepped in back in March/April and killed the deal the Ukrainians had in Ankara.

You are right. Since they never achieved air superiority they have not been able to run any missions with their bombers.

But outside of that they threw the entire might of their "professional" soldiers at Ukraine and have been humiliated.

 

[LouderVol]

Non-intervention, not isolationism. I don't know why you people continue to distort between the two. Some things simply don't require us to be involved. World War I is the perfect example. We had no business being involved in what amounted to a European circular firing squad. You people continue to use this weak narrative that "isolationism" only worked before modern warefare when the real truth is that a majority of conflict could easily be resolved with honest diplomacy and mutually beneficial commerce... the very things George Washington spoke about in his farewell address. Gunboat diplomacy and a rapacious foreign policy where we go across the globe and take advantage of sh^thole countries' resources requires us to be engaged in all of these bullsh^t conflicts.

Now apply that to Russia in this situation.

 

[LouderVol]

And again, you are unable to separate or make a distinction between the Soviets and present day Russian Federation. And even then, I think there was a lot that could have been done during the Cold War that could havedriven down the anxiety and animosity between the 2 of us. No reason in the world why we couldn't and shouldn't be close allies with Russia. And truthfully, from the time of Catherine the Great until the Cold War, we were allies and friendly with each other. You lack historical perspective and are driven by your old Cold War biases.

We were never allies. Or at least I dont ever know of a time when we were. Maybe the Boxer Rebellion, I would love to see you jump in on THAT alliance being a good thing.

Yeah we were friendly until we had reason not to be. When we were friendly Russia had no intention of spreading across the Pacific towards us, or any of our actual allies. That changed with the Soviets. but we deserve the first strike because we favored the White RUSSIANS over the Soviets in Operation Polar Bear. You know the Russians we were friendly with, and not the Soviets that we pretend arent the same people as the Russians.

So should we have favored the Russians over the Soviets during their Revolution? Should we have just dropped our old friends and left them to their fate, and just picked up dealing with the new Boss as if he was the old boss? What would that say about our trust worthiness?

Then when the Soviets came they were more expansionist than we were. We were already established the world over by the time they really came to power. The Soviets had to expand far faster and more aggressively than we ever did. And they once again took stances counter to our existing friendships and alliances. That made them the enemy. They came into our existing sphere and started pushing.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[JuicyBrucey]

Imagine being angry at Zelensky for asking financial support and not at Putin for killing Ukrainians.

Imagine being angry at Putin for killing Ukrainians and not at Zelensky for killing Ukrainians.

 

[volgr]

Putin has been very even keeled throughout this ordeal and continues to be.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I don't know if Russia can even be considered a threat. They couldn't even beat Ukraine. In fact, they never got close to defeating Ukraine, even before our corrupt politicians started sending zelensky 10s of billions of dollars and military equipment with no strings attached.

I’d challenge that. Ukraine did put up a helluva defense early on that shocked everyone most importantly Putin. Once that happened and the west saw they would fight then the arms started flowing. No way the recent counter offensives happen without western support the invading Russians would just outlast Ukraine and eventually over run the whole country. But now with Ukraine getting continual resupply while Russia has only Iran and North Korea willing to resupply them the momentum has completely flipped.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Yet zelensky is begging for money from the international community (and specifically the US) like any common street bum. Im sure some of those guys begging for money on street corners ended up there through no fault of their own. The analogy fits.

Ukraine actually has a document in hand they can hold up to the US and United Kingdom pointing out we said we would help. The Budapest Memorandum.

 

[JuicyBrucey]

So you got any statistics on how many black slaves there were in Africa vs how many in the Americas back in those days? And who did the enslaving and selling?

Are you really going to say the Russians forced the Americans to enslave so many black people? Are you really going to go there?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Nomadic or semi-nomadic ne'er-do-wells meeting dedicated nation builders who have actually done something with the place. A lot like evolution - get better or perish. Pretty simple really Palestinians were slackers, and Israelis were doers. BTW, I don't see Russian culture/civilization much better than third world goat herders.

Like for the last sentence alone that’s guaranteed to get a rise out of the stooge collective

 

[NorthDallas40]

What terrorist state is actually being weakened at this moment?.

Russia, Moe, Russia. And it’s obvious to everyone even you stooges based on the level of squealing stepped up since the counter offensives have started.

 

[NorthDallas40]

If he actually said that he’s either A) lying and will send his less advantaged rural people more quietly or B) bern told to back the hell off by the elites.

Either way it’s clear his support across the board is waning if even this mobilization failed and people are tiring of this thuggery.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Putin has been very even keeled throughout this ordeal and continues to be.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!