War in Ukraine

#30,253
#30,253
Rasputin_Vol said:
No one is arguing that they didn't win. It's obvious. What point are you trying to make by saying this?
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They earned their self determination and the ability to create their own state. Those rebelling in eastern Ukraine were losing even with direct support from their Russian masters so they did not earn the right to self determination.
 
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#30,254
#30,254
Crimean Bridge going bye bye. Russia built these highway and rail bridges after they annexed Crimea for $3 billion. Ukraine will cut off supplies to the Russian troops in the South. Eventually Battle of Kherson.

There's even a countdown clock until it will be blown up - timed to coincide with the start of Russia’s Victory Day celebrations on May 9th.

Probably high-speed remote boats w huge charges or possibly subs.

T minus 2 days...

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#30,256
#30,256
Rasputin_Vol said:
They were voting to break away from Ukraine. So you're basically saying that the Kyiv regime should have controlled the voting process... the same regime that was put in place due to a US sanctioned coup.

You can't even say that with a straight face.
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Fine, add UN observers. If the separatists control the process that guarantees a win for them.
Hypothetically, if 30% of Shelby County is descended from Mississippians and those Mississippians want Shelby County to secede from Tennessee and join Mississippi, who should oversee the vote? Tennessee would be involved for sure.
 
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#30,257
#30,257
EasternVol said:
Fine, add UN observers. If the separatists control the process that guarantees a win for them.
Hypothetically, If 30% of Shelby County is descended from Mississippians and those Mississippians want Shelby County to secede from Tennessee and join Mississippi, who should oversee the vote? Tennessee would be involved for sure.
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The Tennessee govt would be a legitimate govt in your hypothetical scenario... not a govt established after a coup staged by some external entity.
 
#30,258
#30,258
EasternVol said:
Fine, add UN observers. If the separatists control the process that guarantees a win for them.
Hypothetically, If 30% of Shelby County is descended from Mississippians and those Mississippians want Shelby County to secede from Tennessee and join Mississippi, who should oversee the vote? Tennessee would be involved for sure.
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LOL, and the US or Western countries wouldn't be bias... look at how the West bullies countries right now to do their bidding.
 
#30,260
#30,260
Rasputin_Vol said:
Noam Chomsky says there is only one statesman in The West that wants to end this conflict...

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Chomsky's a brilliant guy. It's really strange to hear him say anything positive about Trump even in a backhanded way. That being said, Russia's invasion is not justified. And tomorrow it won't be justifed, and the day after, and on and on.
 
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#30,261
#30,261
OrangeTsar said:
You know, I am on Ukraine‘s side here my hope they win this thing. But the US is playing a VERY dangerous game here if this is true. This is awfully close to being an actual combatant IMHO
Psaki: We had no idea Ukraine would sink that ship with the intel we provided
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They have openly stated that Ukraine is being used as a proxy. They are going to continue sending arms to Ukraine in an effort to prolong this thing and (hopefully) wear down Russia. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians will continue to be ground down and be used as cannon fodder when this entre thing could have been resolved without bloodshed.

Everyone Is Starting to Admit Something Frightening About Ukraine
 
#30,263
#30,263
EasternVol said:
Chomsky's a brilliant guy. It's really strange to hear him say anything positive about Trump even in a backhanded way. That being said, Russia's invasion is not justified. And tomorrow it won't be justifed, and the day after, and on and on.
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It is completely justified. Protecting the civilian population in the east and preventing further NATO expansion on their doorstep. NATO countries have done similar or worse and they were able to justify their actions.
 
#30,264
#30,264
OrangeTsar said:
You know, I am on Ukraine‘s side here my hope they win this thing. But the US is playing a VERY dangerous game here if this is true. This is awfully close to being an actual combatant IMHO
Psaki: We had no idea Ukraine would sink that ship with the intel we provided
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We're into this war up to our eyeballs already. What's Putin gonna do... attack us? LOL. This would result in the complete destruction of their armed forces in Ukraine with all of NATO beating the crap out of them.
 
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#30,266
#30,266
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#30,268
#30,268
WBO said:
Meanwhile in the war, It seems Ukraine might have hit another Russian warship, this time a frigate (their definition of a frigate is significantly different from what we use to call fast frigates). This one, the Admiral Makarov, is their newest class of frigates, commissioned in 2017.

For years US naval experts have figured that Russian Navy damage control systems and coordination were substandard and it's finally being proven true. These guys are going down after 2, or in this case maybe just 1, missle hit. It's going to take some lucky hits for two 500 lb warheads to take out a US destroyer. It's going to degraded but it will still fight.

Thanks to the Brits' experience in the Falklands (the Argentine AF kicked their ass until we broke neutrality and provided AWACS cover) we made improvements in our destroyers enhancing their survivability (of course we wouldn't go into battle with massive cooking vats still full of cooking oil which caught fire because they couldn't imagine going without their fish and chips). Every man on a US Navy shop, right down to the doctors and dentists, has to go through damage control school.

Plus we have our history from WW2 where on multiple occasions the Japanese were sure they had sunk a carrier and would think they were seeing a completely different ship when subsequent attack waves encountered the "sunken" carrier doing 20 kts.

The Russians last significant naval action was the Russo-Japanese war in 1905 and that didn't turn out too well. Guess things haven't changed much.

As General Buck Turgenson said, "Mr. President, if I may speak freely, the Russkie talks big, but frankly, we think he's short of know how. I mean, you just can't expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys."
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Very informative. Speaking of lessons from the Falklands, do any US navy ships have aluminum superstructures?
 
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#30,271
#30,271
The Ukrainian partition... lets see if The West condemns the Polish invasion and annexation... Followed soon after or maybe simultaneously with Hungary getting a piece.



Galicia (Eastern Europe) - Wikipedia

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Congress of Carpathian Ruthenia – Europe Between East And West

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#30,273
#30,273
#30,274
#30,274
EasternVol said:
Very informative. Speaking of lessons from the Falklands, do any US navy ships have aluminum superstructures?
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I'm not sure about the littoral ships (which should now just be referred to collectively as the "Disaster Class") now but I am pretty sure the early ships that were in the Spruance class did have aluminum superstructures. But the last Spruance class ship was decommissioned 20 years ago. Do we have any SWO's in the forum that could answer that?

They're closing out the cruiser classes. The Arleigh Burkes are larger and closer to cruiser capability, plus they all cost so freaking much now. With their Aegis system I doubt the superstructure is aluminum.
 
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#30,275
#30,275
Rasputin_Vol said:
They have openly stated that Ukraine is being used as a proxy. They are going to continue sending arms to Ukraine in an effort to prolong this thing and (hopefully) wear down Russia. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians will continue to be ground down and be used as cannon fodder when this entre thing could have been resolved without bloodshed.

Everyone Is Starting to Admit Something Frightening About Ukraine
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60 mph down the middle: Do you mean if Russia had not invaded?
 
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