War in Ukraine

#30,051
#30,051
EasternVol said:
Just because it's our habit doesn't make it right. Russia's invasion is unjustified.
Click to expand...
So the Russians should have just allowed the Ukrainians to continue attacking Donbas? So the Russians should have just allowed NATO free reign on their doorstep with the ability to stage nukes on their border?
 
#30,052
#30,052
Rasputin_Vol said:
When you condemn the US occupation of NE Syria, NATO theft of Kosovo, KSA war on Yemen...
Click to expand...
Done, see the appropriate threads.

I actually dont remember one on Kosovo specifically, so here is my stating that NATO needs to stay out.

Your turn Mr. Inconsistent. Or is this another case of your one sided opinions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLSONLY and NorthDallas40
#30,053
#30,053
Rasputin_Vol said:
Click to expand...

Red herring.

You literally can not, will not, address Russia's specific actions. You have to deflect and distract. If you were actually objective you could separate Russias actions from what the US did in the pacific 100 years ago. I mean the fact that you have to stretch that far points out how ludicrous your beliefs are.

And it's really ironic because you ignore all the meddling that Russia was doing at that time. They were a world power long before we were a nation. The protectors of Orthodoxy stuck their noses in many places it didnt belong, and justified their nationalism under pretexts of religiosity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLSONLY and NorthDallas40
#30,054
#30,054
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Russians should have just allowed the Ukrainians to continue attacking Donbas? So the Russians should have just allowed NATO free reign on their doorstep with the ability to stage nukes on their border?
Click to expand...
Estonia, Latvia already share direct land borders with big Russia. Poland and Lithunia is touches Kalingrad. (You want to talk about weird borders and land grabs) Turkey shares a water border. Even though not part of NATO japan could also be a staging ground for nukes.

This isnt something new.

This is Putin throwing a tantrum because his coup failed.

The Donbas would have given up years ago if Russia hadnt occupied it first. There was no separatist movements until russia invaded them, same with Crimea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paper_Towel, EasternVol, volbound1700 and 5 others
#30,059
#30,059
  • Like
Reactions: Vol737, marcusluvsvols, NorthDallas40 and 1 other person
#30,060
#30,060
allvol123 said:
So it won’t be in the May Day parade? Dang.
Click to expand...

IF that is true, Russia made a very huge miscalculation in invading Ukraine. There was very little to gain from it after you take into account the military losses. It could eventually turn into a valuable resource over time but that also depends upon the Ukrainian military and its allies not harassing any Russian occupation which is extremely unlikely at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: allvol123
#30,061
#30,061
landscapingvol said:
IF that is true, Russia made a very huge miscalculation in invading Ukraine. There was very little to gain from it after you take into account the military losses. It could eventually turn into a valuable resource over time but that also depends upon the Ukrainian military and its allies not harassing any Russian occupation which is extremely unlikely at this point.
Click to expand...
Also, how many ships do they have to lose before the military shipyards in Crimea is a moot point?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MontyPython and AM64
#30,062
#30,062
LouderVol said:
Is NATO in the room with us right now?

And it's weird that you have such an issue with a country being attacked by Russia to be part of a defensive alliance put together specifically to combat russian aggression.

And it is counter intuitive for Putin to invade Ukraine, actually bringing his army closer to NATO, to avoid the potential of NATO being closer to his army. As always it's ok when Russia does it, but not when NATO does it.
Click to expand...
Don’t bring logic and common sense into this louder FFS!
 
#30,063
#30,063
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Russians should have just allowed the Ukrainians to continue attacking Donbas? So the Russians should have just allowed NATO free reign on their doorstep with the ability to stage nukes on their border?
Click to expand...
They could have tried diplomacy instead of just making a land grab. You know… like you’re demanding Ukraine do Moe? 🤡
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLSONLY and InVOLuntary
#30,064
#30,064
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Russians should have just allowed the Ukrainians to continue attacking Donbas? So the Russians should have just allowed NATO free reign on their doorstep with the ability to stage nukes on their border?
Click to expand...

So, the Ukrainians should just continue to let the Russians occupy their land uninvited?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paper_Towel, AM64, volbound1700 and 2 others
#30,069
#30,069
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Russians should have just allowed the Ukrainians to continue attacking Donbas? So the Russians should have just allowed NATO free reign on their doorstep with the ability to stage nukes on their border?
Click to expand...

1. Please. Do you really think pootin gives a flying f*** about the people in donbas? No one is buying that he's a humanitarian or that there were Nazi's.
2. Allow? They should have built better alliances and brought value to the table that made sense to counter western interests. For their troubles, now they have two more countries that are about to join NATO.

Your reasons excuses are old and busted, no ones buying.

We all know that this was a land grab by pootin to try and put the band back together. He miscalculated and you keep backing a loser. Maybe you'd be happier on the Vandy political forum?
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLSONLY, AM64, InVOLuntary and 2 others
#30,073
#30,073
Rasputin_Vol said:
Have you read the key points of that Budapest Agreement? I think you might want to pump the brakes on your support of it.
Click to expand...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pump your own brakes; even Russia didn't claim what you claim, that it was justified in taking Crimea because of your mythical U.S. coup in Ukraine but rather that Ukraine's EuroMaidan 'revolution' - an INTERNAL affair - effectually was a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty by none other than....Ukrainians. Or in current Russkie parlance, cake-thieving, Jewish Nazi Ukrainians.

You couldn't make this shite up in a work of fiction.

Here's the pertient excerpt from Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's declaration on April 1 2014:
----------------------------------------------
Early on April 1, the Russian Foreign Ministry updated its Facebook page with what, in hindsight, seems to have been a warning.

"Happy April 1, 2014! The jokes are over :)," it said.

A few hours later, the Foreign Ministry issued a statement accusing Ukraine of violating its own territorial integrity and claiming Russia had fully complied with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

-- The current government in Kyiv came to power in a coup and, due to its ultranationalist policies, it in essence "blew up" Ukrainian unity and "pushed" Crimea away.

The government in Kyiv came to power following a week in which nearly 100 people died in clashes with security forces associated with former President Viktor Yanukovych, who himself fled the capital -- first to eastern Ukraine and then to Russia. At the time, RFE/RL wrote about whether the transfer of power was "constitutional."

In claiming that Kyiv pushed Crimea out of its orbit, Moscow appears to be implying that a supposed ultranationalist threat forced Crimeans to break away. But despite Russian claims, Crimea's ethnic Russian majority never appeared to be under threat. And after Russian and pro-Russian forces seized Crimea's parliament, the de facto government in Crimea rejected visits from emissaries in Kyiv hoping to defuse the situation. Observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) were also refused entry at the border. Russia's April 1 Claim That Ukraine Violated Its Own Territorial Integrity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further: Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
Russian claims that the Ukrainian authorities are illegitimate The current Ukrainian president and government were approved by an overwhelming majority in the Ukrainian parliament (371 votes out of 417 registered) on 27 February 2014, including members of the Party of Regions. That parliament was elected on 28 October 2012. The Russian Foreign Ministry at the time declared that the elections were held “peacefully, without any excesses and in line with generally-accepted standards” and “confirmed Ukraine’s commitment to democracy and the rule of law.” The statement can be read in Russian here. The parliament which Russia called legitimate then can hardly be called illegitimate now. https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl...14_04/20140513_140411-factsheet_russia_en.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Provision of the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances:

According to the memorandum,[22] Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:
  1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[23]
  2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
  3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
  4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
  5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
  6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.[19][24]
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't it odd that there is no exclusionary clause stating that should the populace of Ukraine broadly support closer economic ties to the West, broadly protest the Russian stooge Yanukovych for not signing the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement overwhelmingly supported by Ukrainians, that Russia can invade to restore another Russian stooge as head of Ukrainian state? In sovereign Ukraine? Surely it was an oversight, in a memorandum designed to assure the sovereignty of these three countries, to NOT assert that Russia may determine the legitimacy of THEIR sovereignty.

You're a continuum of preposterous assertions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary, NorthDallas40 and Hunerwadel
#30,074
#30,074
GVF said:
So, the Ukrainians should just continue to let the Russians occupy their land uninvited?
Click to expand...
The Russians had already been living there knucklehead. WTF are you talking about? That entire Southeastern region and along the coast were heavily Russian.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top