War in Ukraine

#29,727
#29,727
AM64 said:
If people aren't happy with where they are, send them to a place they can identify with and make them happy. Seems like an easy lesson to learn from all the festering, disparate places the world (particularly it seems the British) cobbled together over the years. Funny part is that it seems the major player is usually religion - the thing that "makes people better" ... but somehow less tolerant of others.
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Wars which appear religious on the surface can have nationalistic / economic root causes. The Troubles in Northern Ireland were presented in the US as a Catholic vs Protestant issue, but was really a UK settler vs native Irish issue.
 
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#29,730
#29,730
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is because Afghan lives actually are valued less than Ukrainian lives. The West just uses these peoples' death to advance a narrative.
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Afghan lives ended by the US are worth less for our administration's political purposes. Those ended by DAESH or the Taliban would have equal value to Ukrainian lives.
 
#29,731
#29,731
EasternVol said:
Wars which appear religious on the surface can have nationalistic / economic root causes. The Troubles in Northern Ireland were presented in the US as a Catholic vs Protestant issue, but was really a UK settler vs native Irish issue.
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Yep, and I stay away from that one as a war between religions. That has it's roots way back when England decided to take part of Ireland and then import some Protestant Scots to really salt the wound. If Russia should win even part of Ukraine, this is likely the same thing they will face without the religious implications. I'm really thinking more of the Eastern European nations (Yugoslavia in particular) that were cobbled together with mixes of ill fitting religions and ethnicities; and almost any place with a mix of Islamic and non-Islamic inhabitants unless one exists in extremely small numbers and is willing to adhere to the rule of the majority.
 
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#29,732
#29,732
OrangeTsar said:
Turkey will always side wit whomever it is in their interest to side with. NATO was always only a useful counterweight to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I expect Endrogan is not feeling much need for NATO in this new world
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If Russia wins this one, and they probably will, he'll have a lot of use for NATO.
 
#29,736
#29,736
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 2
May 2, 2022 - Press ISW


Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 2
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
May 2, 5:15 pm ET​
Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks in Ukraine on May 2. The April 30 Ukrainian artillery strike on the Russian command post in Izyum may be continuing to disrupt Russian efforts on the Izyum axis. Russian troops on the Donetsk-Luhansk frontline and Southern Axis continued to regroup, likely in preparation for renewed offensives or to resist or reverse Ukrainian counter-offensives.

Key Takeaways
  • Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks along any axes of advance and instead shelled Ukrainian positions on the frontlines.
  • The April 30 Ukrainian artillery strike on Russian command headquarters near Izyum likely disrupted Russian operations on the Izyum axis and may hinder Russian offensives from Izyum for the next few days.
  • Russian forces on the Southern Axis continued to regroup and reconnoiter likely in preparation for ground assaults in the direction of Kryvyi Rih, Mykolaiv, and Zaporizhia.

giphy (23).gif
 
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#29,738
#29,738
Very precise hits. Don't think it's AT missiles, so either guided artillery or, perhaps, Switchblade 600s in action.

The pathetic Russian "advance" in Donbas appears to be getting pulverized. Moreover, now on full stop.

3 tanks here, 3 APCs there adds up to a death by a thousand cuts for Russia.

It still amazes me that:

(1) Russia still hasn't gained broad air superiority; and
(2) Russia still hasn't massed a large-scale attack with hundreds of tanks in Donbas. Just a drip-drip-drip of apparent small probing actions.

Putin has to be livid at this point. His precious May 9th "Victory Parade" is looming.

Hope the Ukrainians have some special presents for Vlad at the parade. If they were able to disrupt the parade, perhaps the Russian mindset might change.

 
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#29,739
#29,739
Rasputin_Vol said:
It will be for longer than that. They are hoping to have this drag out as long as possible, even past the point of the last drop of Ukrainian blood is shed. The Ukrainians don't matter one damn bit to the decisionmakers. its about war profits and then trying to claw back some of the graft that they were able to have when Biden and the Clintons and other US/Western pollical families were able to rob Ukraine back in the good ole days 8 years ago.
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You could change like three or four words and apply it to Russia too.
 
#29,741
#29,741
OrangeTsar said:
And no matter what else one my say, when all else is said and done, Putin is the one who made the ultimate decision to wage aggressive offensive war.
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The first aggression was the US led coup in 2014, followed by the 8 years of attacks on Donetsk Nd Luhansk. Putin then responded.
 
#29,742
#29,742
EasternVol said:
The 2014 vote was a farce. Look at the opinion polls pre-referendum and the polling conditions.
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We had RT supplied pictures of the armed guards standing over the voting boxes, and pictures of the ballots with only one choice on it. And I also wonder who counted those votes after the military had run the politicians out?
 
#29,743
#29,743
Rasputin_Vol said:
The first aggression was the US led coup in 2014, followed by the 8 years of attacks on Donetsk Nd Luhansk. Putin then responded.
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Donetsk, Luhansk, and Maiden, have NOTHING to do with Russia.

Your exact same argument against the US arming Ukraine applies to Russia and the Donbas. If Russia really cared about peace and lives they wouldnt have supplied the rebels weapons, and would have encouraged a peace treaty, right?
 
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#29,744
#29,744
tvolsfan said:
So is your position that Ukrainians didn’t want to join the EU? Lol

And the elected president campaigned on closer ties to the EU. He was lying, and that’s why his people removed him.
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No, my position is that there were some that did want to join and some that did not. Once the US did not like the decision made by the democratically elected leader, the US State Department triggered and coordinated the Euro Maidan uprisings/ colour revolution, which lead to the overthrow of Yanukovich. Once the oblasts that most heavily supported Yanukovich and his decision to gain closer relations with Russia saw this, they no longer wanted any parts of the newly inserted Kyiv regime and chose to breakaway.

The regions in Ukraine that heavily supported Yanukovich in 2010. See if you see a pattern...

300px-Другий_тур_2010_по_округах-en.png
 
#29,746
#29,746
AM64 said:
Do you see a sovereign nation thinking about joining a mutual defense pact as more threatening than an actual invader threatening to nuke countries willing to assist a country they have invaded?
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Russia clearly has stated for the last 30 years that NATO expansion eastward threatened its military security. NATO moving eastward regardless of Moscow's concerns is the problem. Just because these buffer countries may have a desire to join NATO, that doesn't mean NATO has to bring them in or get directly involved in their politics... let me back up. When I say "NATO" in this case, we clearly know that this is mainly about the United States moving military assets into Russia's sphere of influence. I think that if the US wasn't involved, the Europeans and the Russians could have found a less combative security arrangement and we would have never gotten to this point. But these NATO countries are vassal states at this point and will do whatever the hell the US and British want to do, even if it means tanking their own economies and ramping up the risk of having a disgruntled Russia on their doorsteps.

The US should leave the affairs of Europe to Europeans and let them put their big boy pants on. Meanwhile, we have our own set of problems in our own hemisphere/ sphere of influence.
 
#29,747
#29,747
EasternVol said:
Because Russia will be stronger if it does control Ukraine. That and the naked aggression of the invasion.
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How does Russia get stronger? Economically? Demographically? Militarily?

And how do any of those affect the average American?

Also, if this "naked aggression" burns your beans so much, when will the US start flooding Cypress with weapons against Turkey? When will we pull our troops out of Northeast Syria?
 
#29,749
#29,749
AM64 said:
If people aren't happy with where they are, send them to a place they can identify with and make them happy. Seems like an easy lesson to learn from all the festering, disparate places the world (particularly it seems the British) cobbled together over the years. Funny part is that it seems the major player is usually religion - the thing that "makes people better" ... but somehow less tolerant of others.
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When should people stand their ground and fight for self-determination vs migrate? Where do you draw that line?
 
#29,750
#29,750
EasternVol said:
The 2014 vote was a farce. Look at the opinion polls pre-referendum and the polling conditions.
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Every vote that doesn't go in the United States way is immediately discredited, even though I just showed you the very regions that supported Yanukovich in 2010. You have provide more evidence to strengthen your argument to convince me that the same regions in 2014 wouldn't be pizzed about their elected leader being regime changed.
 
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