War in Ukraine

#29,581
#29,581
volgr said:
Why does the US care if Russia controls Ukraine? It changes nothing for us. Involving ourselves in Ukraine not only doesn't help the average American citizen it is making their economic life worse.
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If someone were trying to rob and murder you I would come to your aid if at all possible. And that's even if I knew who you were. It's just the right thing to do.
 
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#29,583
#29,583
AM64 said:
If people aren't happy with where they are, send them to a place they can identify with and make them happy. Seems like an easy lesson to learn from all the festering, disparate places the world (particularly it seems the British) cobbled together over the years. Funny part is that it seems the major player is usually religion - the thing that "makes people better" ... but somehow less tolerant of others.
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It is about land. All war is about land. Check out what happened with every peace treaty. The issue is that this totally makes sense to me. If I am a country that doesn't have enough farmland to feed my people, as a world leader, it makes sense and is better for my people to attack and conquer my neighbor.

Now Russia doesn't 100% have this excuse in this situation but they definitely want to get back Ukraine because it was the former bread basket of their Empire, had about 1/5 of the former population of the USSR, had about 1/3 of the industry, etc. Ukraine is a very rich region of the former Russian/Soviet Empire so it makes sense that they want to conquer us. I think Putin would have been smarter to just admit the truth, he wants to conquer Ukraine.
 
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#29,588
#29,588
DonjoVol said:
Where have I shared anything from Twitter?; Who are these random dudes you are speaking of?

I think you're jealous that my knowledge of history is much greater than yours.
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Lancaster is a random Twitter and YouTube plant lol. Zero hedge is propaganda. You just aren’t intelligent enough to see you are being duped
 
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#29,589
#29,589
DonjoVol said:
Well they do love Ukraine so much and the government there has banned speech, media outlets and political parties. Sounds like heaven to them.
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Ukraine isn’t full of saints and Russia isn’t full of devils. But I greatly mourn what has happened there. There was absolutely no reason a war had to break out there. The average Ukrainian citizen was just going about their life one day and then the tanks rolled in the next day. The hottest corner of hell will be too good for the people responsible. We can argue about whom that ultimately is; but God will judge correctly at the final trial. But to the one who ultimately gave the order to cross the border, he better have a better defense than it appears to my limited knowledge
 
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#29,590
#29,590
volgr said:
Why does the US care if Russia controls Ukraine? It changes nothing for us. Involving ourselves in Ukraine not only doesn't help the average American citizen it is making their economic life worse.
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Why do you refuse to say the Russians illegally invaded a sovereign country, is killing innocents and should leave immediately.
 
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#29,594
#29,594
volbound1700 said:
It is about land. All war is about land. Check out what happened with every peace treaty. The issue is that this totally makes sense to me. If I am a country that doesn't have enough farmland to feed my people, as a world leader, it makes sense and is better for my people to attack and conquer my neighbor.

Now Russia doesn't 100% have this excuse in this situation but they definitely want to get back Ukraine because it was the former bread basket of their Empire, had about 1/5 of the former population of the USSR, had about 1/3 of the industry, etc. Ukraine is a very rich region of the former Russian/Soviet Empire so it makes sense that they want to conquer us. I think Putin would have been smarter to just admit the truth, he wants to conquer Ukraine.
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Ukraine is definitely about land and resources. A lot of other conflicts aren't, but this one definitely is. Throw in geography, too. For its size, Russia is remarkably landlocked. Even with better access, the Black Sea is like a big bathtub with a tiny, easily monitored and pluggable drain; and the Baltic isn't hugely better. Even with a lot of oil and natural gas, Russia doesn't really own great avenues to markets without taking Belarus and Ukraine. Lithuania and Belarus are the only things standing between Russia and the Kaliningrad Baltic ports; you have to think they are either next in line if Ukraine is taken or Belarus is just quietly annexed. Russia currently simply doesn't have the national mentality to play well with others; they are the bully that will try to take what they need. They really need the Soviet band back together, and most of the old members want no part of it.
 
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#29,595
#29,595
AM64 said:
Ukraine is definitely about land and resources. A lot of other conflicts aren't, but this one definitely is. Throw in geography, too. For its size, Russia is remarkably landlocked. Even with better access, the Black Sea is like a big bathtub with a tiny, easily monitored and pluggable drain; and the Baltic isn't hugely better. Even with a lot of oil and natural gas, Russia doesn't really own great avenues to markets without taking Belarus and Ukraine. Lithuania and Belarus are the only things standing between Russia and the Kaliningrad Baltic ports; you have to think they are either next in line if Ukraine is taken or Belarus is just quietly annexed. Russia currently simply doesn't have the national mentality to play well with others; they are the bully that will try to take what they need. They really need the Soviet band back together, and most of the old members want no part of it.
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And for 300 years, Russia/CCCP has had their greedy eyes on one thing above all else, the Bosporus/Dardanelles. This is just one more chapter in Russia‘s self appointed „historical mission“
 
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#29,598
#29,598
AM64 said:
Ukraine is definitely about land and resources. A lot of other conflicts aren't, but this one definitely is. Throw in geography, too. For its size, Russia is remarkably landlocked. Even with better access, the Black Sea is like a big bathtub with a tiny, easily monitored and pluggable drain; and the Baltic isn't hugely better. Even with a lot of oil and natural gas, Russia doesn't really own great avenues to markets without taking Belarus and Ukraine. Lithuania and Belarus are the only things standing between Russia and the Kaliningrad Baltic ports; you have to think they are either next in line if Ukraine is taken or Belarus is just quietly annexed. Russia currently simply doesn't have the national mentality to play well with others; they are the bully that will try to take what they need. They really need the Soviet band back together, and most of the old members want no part of it.
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Nearly every war that I can think is about land.

World War 1, World War 2, etc. Civil Wars might be an exception and Civil Wars can sometimes get players on both sides.
 
#29,600
#29,600
FLVOL_79 said:
Simple rule of thumb is to take anything Russia or their propagandists say, and believe the exact opposite.
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I've actually done the opposite. Whatever western media says, consider the opposite and you are likely going to be much closer to the truth. Confession through projection.
 
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