War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

LMAO seriously? The most current time is the present “ Special Military Operation” and I cannot wait for the whataboutism play youre gonna make on this one
View attachment 452292

Still waiting.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s pretty clear to understand if you’re not making a stooge play to weasel out of it.

Did you read it? No obligation.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Still waiting.

Already answered Moe

 

[volfanhill]

Reach is a tooth brush. Not a legitimate argument for you Russian apologists. Plus the one of you pretending like we needed to prove Alex Jones was a lying POS. Dumbest thing I have read on this site in years.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Did you read it? No obligation.

LMAO another clown post. NATO is one entity for purposes of defense from attack. So you are trying basically sell “hey I’m not obligated to defend myself if I get kicked in the balls I can just take it”

Which of course is exactly what you’re selling.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Already answered Moe

When were they? You said 3 times.

 

[NorthDallas40]

When were they? You said 3 times.

Crimea and Donbass in 2014. All of Ukraine 2022. Now let’s hear your whataboutism Moe

 

[NorthDallas40]

So is this the current dumbassery coming out of Moscow? NATO and article 5 aren’t real? I guess I could say I’m shocked at a completely idiotic play like that but am I really?

 

[OrangeTsar]

And you don't think NATO played any role in this?

Well of course they did. This is the big game and Ukraine is the prize that both sides desire. But Putin got played. All he has done is driven Ukraine into the arms of NATO. Ukraine will never voluntarily do Russia bidding ever again. Even if Russia outright conquers Ukraine, they will never enjoy the expected benefits. Ukraine will be ungovernable and a constant thorn in Moscow’s side forever. Putin got impatient and stopped playing the long game.
Now i am obviously Team NATO and do Not want a return to the days of the Soviet Union and the Cold War. But Ukraine wasn’t necessary for either side to control. Definitely not worth the risk of World War. Both sides should have just let Ukraine be. A neutral buffer state beholden to themselves only

 

[tvolsfan]

Well of course they did. This is the big game and Ukraine is the prize that both sides desire. But Putin got played. All he has done is driven Ukraine into the arms of NATO. Ukraine will never voluntarily do Russia bidding ever again. Even if Russia outright conquers Ukraine, they will never enjoy the expected benefits. Ukraine will be ungovernable and a constant thorn in Moscow’s side forever. Putin got impatient and stopped playing the long game.
Now i am obviously Team NATO and do Not want a return to the days of the Soviet Union and the Cold War. But Ukraine wasn’t necessary for either side to control. Definitely not worth the risk of World War. Both sides should have just let Ukraine be. A neutral buffer state beholden to themselves only

But Ukraine didn’t want to be a neutral buffer state. They wanted to join Europe and the modern world. Putin’s ego couldn’t take that.

 

[OrangeTsar]

But Ukraine didn’t want to be a neutral buffer state. They wanted to join Europe and the modern world. Putin’s ego couldn’t take that.

A nation can be part of the modern west but still unaligned with either NATO or Russia. Or at least, they ONCE could be. Putin ha sort of forced those unaligned countries to pick a side, which is why Sweden and Finland are about to join NATO

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Crimea and Donbass in 2014. All of Ukraine 2022. Now let’s hear your whataboutism Moe

The West didn't violate in the 2004 Ukrainian election?

What about the 2011 sanctions on Belarus?

What about the 2013-2014 US State Department orchestrated coup in Ukraine?

The 2016 visit to Ukraine by John McCain and Lindsey Graham encouraging them to violate the Minsk II ceasefire?

Plenty of "whataboutisms" that you just want to gloss over.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But Ukraine didn’t want to be a neutral buffer state. They wanted to join Europe and the modern world. Putin’s ego couldn’t take that.

The elected president and the people that voted for him did not want to go in that direction. G**damn... you all make it sound like it was a unanimous decision by the entire country.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The West didn't violate in the 2004 Ukrainian election?

What about the 2011 sanctions on Belarus?

What about the 2013-2014 US State Department orchestrated coup in Ukraine?

The 2016 visit to Ukraine by John McCain and Lindsey Graham encouraging them to violate the Minsk II ceasefire?

Plenty of "whataboutisms" that you just want to gloss over.

No. The whataboutisms don’t absolve Russia if their obligations no matter how much you try to sell it Moe. Womp womp

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No. The whataboutisms don’t absolve Russia if their obligations no matter how much you try to sell it Moe. Womp womp

It has nothing to do with trying to let Russia off the hook. It has to do with you guys ignoring the same actions when the US has done then 10Xs over.

 

[apevol]

When is lying in a situation like this ever a good thing? You may give these 18-22 year olds on the Ukrainian side false hope and have them throw their lives away over nonsense while Western propagandists are sipping tea and making millions.

didnt the fins do that in the winter war?

 

[Rickyvol77]

The West didn't violate in the 2004 Ukrainian election?

What about the 2011 sanctions on Belarus?

What about the 2013-2014 US State Department orchestrated coup in Ukraine?

The 2016 visit to Ukraine by John McCain and Lindsey Graham encouraging them to violate the Minsk II ceasefire?

Plenty of "whataboutisms" that you just want to gloss over.

So they still invaded. And were wrong

 

[OrangeTsar]

No. The whataboutisms don’t absolve Russia if their obligations no matter how much you try to sell it Moe. Womp womp

And no matter what else one my say, when all else is said and done, Putin is the one who made the ultimate decision to wage aggressive offensive war.

 

[allvol123]

And no matter what else one my say, when all else is said and done, Putin is the one who made the ultimate decision to wage aggressive offensive war.

And this is stated everyday and we are on like page 1200.

 

[OrangeTsar]

And this is stated everyday and we are on like page 1200.

Indeed. Truth isn’t lessened by being oft retold. If certain individuals would finally get the message , we could finally move on

 

[allvol123]

Indeed. Truth isn’t lessened by being oft retold. If certain individuals would finally get the meage, we could finally move on

Some people have some warped minds. I shouldn’t be shocked, I guess.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Some people have some warped minds. I shouldn’t be shocked, I guess.

Humanity‘s most puzzling characteristic will always remain its inexplicable capacity to deceive itself even when evidence to the contrary I staring it right in the face. And yes, I fall prey to this same flaw myself on many days

 

[tvolsfan]

The elected president and the people that voted for him did not want to go in that direction. G**damn... you all make it sound like it was a unanimous decision by the entire country.

So is your position that Ukrainians didn’t want to join the EU? Lol

And the elected president campaigned on closer ties to the EU. He was lying, and that’s why his people removed him.

 

[AM64]

Nearly every war that I can think is about land.

World War 1, World War 2, etc. Civil Wars might be an exception and Civil Wars can sometimes get players on both sides.

Seems like the ones in the Middle East (all the way back to the Crusades) and Eastern Europe (after the Soviet collapse) were generally more about religion.

 

[AM64]

And you don't think NATO played any role in this?

Do you see a sovereign nation thinking about joining a mutual defense pact as more threatening than an actual invader threatening to nuke countries willing to assist a country they have invaded?