War in Ukraine

#25,251
#25,251
Redleg68 said:
Would have loved to had that during the day. When you were walking 105's to within 25/50 meters of you position you just prayed that everyone was doing their job. I know that in todays world if you are going up against a modern army, you had better be pretty good at shoot and scoot.
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If we miss by 25M today with an “precision” weapon we are off by a time zone.
 
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#25,252
#25,252
Redleg68 said:
Would have loved to had that during the day. When you were walking 105's to within 25/50 meters of you position you just prayed that everyone was doing their job. I know that in todays world if you are going up against a modern army, you had better be pretty good at shoot and scoot.
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Oh and you’d love the XM982’s we’ve got. And Copperhead. And Excalibur. GPS guided artillery rounds. Some even have rocket assist for extended range. 😎
 
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#25,254
#25,254
NorthDallas40 said:
Indeed. I know my way around the Arsenal dealing with both surface and airborne systems.
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Figured you had. I have an invite to go back to FT. Sill this summer. My nephew's best friend is Asst. Post Commander (1 star) and has told me to come out any time for a good tour and update. Going to take him up on it while I can.
 
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#25,256
#25,256
Redleg68 said:
Figured you had. I have an invite to go back to FT. Sill this summer. My nephew's best friend is Asst. Post Commander (1 star) and has told me to come out any time for a good tour and update. Going to take him up on it while I can.
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So they are playing with some really cool toys at Ft Sill on and off these days. That is one of the venues used to test the Army’s new high energy LASER toys.
 
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#25,259
#25,259
volgr said:
Ukrainians being forced to fight by their corrupt regime.

NATO/US thought this was a fight they wanted...now, I dont know. At this point Russia seems to have the upper hand and the US/NATO seems to be having a hard time not only finding friends but even keeping those in their alliance true.

This seems to have been a terrible miscalculation for Europe and to a lesser degree, the US.
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That post is full of so much stupid I don’t know where to begin, is this another feeble attempt to blame the US/NATO for Russia invading Ukraine.
 
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#25,261
#25,261
NorthDallas40 said:
So they are playing with some really cool toys at Ft Sill on and off these days. That is one of the venues used to test the Army’s new high energy LASER toys.
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You, know it is hard to imagine what tomorrows modern day battlefield will look like. I have often said that I hate the remote drone thing. IT seems too much like a video game. Experiencing the horrors of war is sometimes the only thing keeping the leadership sane. Russia has learned that Tanks are going the way of the buggy whip. I think it will become a battle of electronics between the major powers and small brush fire wars in the proxy wars, I am not sure the modern day battlefield is surviveable between two modern armies. I am talking minus the nukes.
 
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#25,262
#25,262
Redleg68 said:
You, know it is hard to imagine what tomorrows modern day battlefield will look like. I have often said that I hate the remote drone thing. IT seems too much like a video game. Experiencing the horrors of war is sometimes the only thing keeping the leadership sane. Russia has learned that Tanks are going the way of the buggy whip. I think it will become a battle of electronics between the major powers and small brush fire wars in the proxy wars, I am not sure the modern day battlefield is surviveable between two modern armies. I am talking minus the nukes.
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From what I understand, tanks aren't becoming the buggy whip. The Russians just can't keep their tanks moving for a variety of reasons.
 
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#25,263
#25,263
volgr said:
Ukrainians being forced to fight by their corrupt regime.

NATO/US thought this was a fight they wanted...now, I dont know. At this point Russia seems to have the upper hand and the US/NATO seems to be having a hard time not only finding friends but even keeping those in their alliance true.

This seems to have been a terrible miscalculation for Europe and to a lesser degree, the US.
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Maybe you need to take your AZZ over there to give us a more up to date report.
 
#25,266
#25,266
Redleg68 said:
When you can take a small drone up to give a two or three man team an over the horizon kill shot, it is going to be a long day for tanks.
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I agree...a paradigm shift where an infantryman can kill a tank as much a distance as the tank gun and actually more precise. You dont shoot tank rounds at "guys":
Carriers, all surface escorts and amphibians and all sorts of major assets are just waiting too be sunk in the next major war. With such lethality and precision, disbursement and stealth are key..in my novice opinion.
 
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#25,267
#25,267
Orangeburst said:
I agree...a paradigm shift where an infantryman can kill a tank as much a distance as the tank gun and actually more precise. You dont shoot tank rounds at "guys":
Carriers, all surface escorts and amphibians and all sorts of major assets are just waiting too be sunk in the next major war. With such lethality and precision, disbursement and stealth are key..in my novice opinion.
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Yep, a sniper team in the bush has a much better chance of surviving.
 
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#25,269
#25,269
NorthDallas40 said:
Depends on the technology. Most all of the modern ones use light based technology either Fiber Optic Gyros or Ring Laser Gyros. Basically you literally measure the transit time of light thru a know path length. The variance from the nominal time to transit the path length is proportional to the rotational rate of the gyro spool.

The older electro mechanical gyros use the exact same principal as a toy gyroscope. You take a proof Mass momentum wheel and spin it at a known angular speed to set up a specific angular momentum. If you rotate the gyro momentum wheel about its input axis it generates a “precession torque” about its output axis which again is proportional to the input rate.

There are all kinds of other types like semiconductor MEMS (micro electronics mechanical system ) which use semiconductor proof masses on a monolithic silicon substrate, quartz rate sensors which generate a signal voltage proportional to the strain energy in a proof crystal which is again proportional to input rate, and there is a really cool emerging technology called hemispherical resonant gyro or HRG which is very similar to a wine glass resonance excitation.

So basically the device measurement package generally provides some kind of output generally proportional to the rotational rate of the device about its input axis. And then we get to how they all work in what is called the “inertial frame”. But generally they all have some sensing mechanism which applies specific physical properties, such conservation of momentum to the speed of light, which provides as output measurement proportional to the rotational input rate.

Sorry you asked yet or you want me to go on?😎
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Thanks but I didn’t need to know how to build the clock…. How do they work in regards to navigation?
 
#25,270
#25,270
Redleg68 said:
IF I was going into the Army today, armor would definitely not be my choice.
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I have no military experience and I agree, but I think the fact the Russians may have failed to logistically support their tanks with fuel/mechanical/air/troop support shouldn't be dismissed. Despite what some of our friends say, I don't think the Russians are a top-notch fighting force that are demonstrating the appropriate way to execute a ground war.
 
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#25,271
#25,271
hog88 said:
Thanks but I didn’t need to know how to build the clock…. How do they work in regards to navigation?
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So we need to define some terminology.
GPS: Global Positioning System
INS: Inertial Navigation System
IMU: Inertial Measurement Unit
Gyroscope
Accelerometer
EGI: Enhanced GPS aided INS

So all navigation systems have at their core an IMU. The IMU is a six axis inertial measurement package 3 linear using accelerometers and 3 angular using gyroscopes. There are canned computational algorithms that take the IMU data and use it to determine how the host platform moves across the earth (or more generally thru space, even beyond the atmosphere ala moon shot) that system which takes that IMU inertial information and computes a navigation solution is called an INS. And until the advent of GPS that was it. We had inertial nav with the navigator taking a manual celestial fix to update the INS solution at various intervals. This provided corrections to the “free navigation” solution. Then along came GPS and those fixes now became automated along with how they corrected the errors in the INS measurement package, the IMU. This correction method uses a statistical state estimator that estimates the errors in the IMU and provides correction factors to the IMU and allows the INS to achieve a more accurate solution. So when you take an INS and combine it with a GPS receiver you get an EGI.

So the INS uses gyros for rotational measurements and accelerometers for linear measurements and creates a track history for the host platform carrying the INS. And the modern INS combines with a GPS receiver to create an automatic error correcting navigator which we refer to as the EGI. You can actually buy a text book in this day and age that illustrates the basic navigation equations in standardized form.

Did that answer it?

Edit: for completeness the INS uses 7 pieces of information not 6. The 7th is time. Very very very accurate time. The 6 axis IMU and time are combined by textbook equations to provide the navigation solution which answers the two basic questions. Where am I and when am I.
 
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#25,273
#25,273
clarksvol00 said:
I have no military experience and I agree, but I think the fact the Russians may have failed to logistically support their tanks with fuel/mechanical/air/troop support shouldn't be dismissed. Despite what some of our friends say, I don't think the Russians are a top-notch fighting force that are demonstrating the appropriate way to execute a ground war.
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Yep, they used poor tactics and it would appear most of the higher ranks are political appointees instead of trained military. Even if you had flanking infantry support the max. range of a Javelin is close to three miles. Your infantry would not be that far out. Then you use drones to laser target while you are hidden out of line of sight. Then these drones that carry their own warheads, range out for fifty miles or so, fly nap of the earth then pop up find a target and launch. Now sure of the role of tanks in future modern battles. Please don't compare to the Iraqi deal. That was not a modern army and not only did we control the air, we had them outranged with a lot more accuracy. That was a turkey shoot.
 
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#25,274
#25,274
NorthDallas40 said:
We have 175’s now? Is that a 5” gun? I thought those were all Navy. But they’ve got those XM982 rounds for those guns that are deadly accurate also.
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That was the only true gun that the army had then. The rest were howitzers. Those 175's would reach out close to 20 miles. Good for firing H&I's in a large free fire zone or reaching way over onto the trail. Their accuracy though was not that great. About 300 rounds at max. powder and you had to replace the tube.
 
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