Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

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#134,102
#134,102
Ulysees E. McGill said:
If the coal wasn't here and they had therefore never destroyed the environment and brought hundreds of thousands of super poor dirty people and then keft them here...Harlan and Bell counties would be beautiful tourist areas with the Cumberland and it's tributaries.

As it is, they have ruined the mountains and rivers. The people that live like pigs..actually I think a lot of em are worse than pigs with literal mountains of garbage piled around their filthy rotting abodes.


It would be like the Blue Ridge/Smokies area of Western NC and East Tennessee.
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TBH, I always preferred Daniel Boone State Park (or whatever the name is now) over the Smoky Mountains. The trails there are super-accessible to long hikes whereas the Smoky's have always had so much tourism that they're difficult to get to by any means other than car. (I think the North Carolina side is probably a little easier to truly feel lost in than the TN side). I always loved the drive up Clinch Mountain during the fall and before the tunnel was built to access KY from the TN side you'd have to go up and touch the tip of Virginia. My KY family took me to see the Pinnacle which was just amazing but with the new highway all that's bypassed.

The great-grandparents I mentioned were of course murdered over coal -- they had the payroll with them and were killed in their homes over it. They set the house on fire to try and hide it and that was long before the Coal Wars or big mines that brought so much devastation. Coal has always been problematic for the area. The larger mines that dot Harlan and Bell now never paid well enough for what the men were put through but it was more than what many have now so people opine those days and pretend it was better than it was. I wish more had been like one of my great-uncles (he was from the TN side) and he spent one day in the mines and never returned. That was enough for him. It was the Great Depression and he didn't give a damn what they were paying it wasn't enough for what they wanted him to do. And if you look at history -- not people's embellished memories -- even when the mines were full of people. rather than machines that knock down mountains, the companies kept people poor with various tactics. It was never a good time for anyone but the owner of the big energy companies.

I can remember visiting my Mammaw's and staring at the rainbows that would form on her fish pond -- not realizing it was pollution from the rain. Tennessee and North Carolina are lucky that Roosevelt decided to claim the Smoky's as a National Park because if he hadn't we'd have met the same fate. Environmental protections are about the only thing that has kept parts of E. TN from being turned into what you see in Harlan and Bell today.

So yeah, I agree. It's land that should rival anywhere, including the Smoky Mtns but it's been ruined by mining and everything that industry had wrought. Thinking about it makes me angry.
 
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#134,110
#134,110
UTProf said:
TBH, I always preferred Daniel Boone State Park (or whatever the name is now) over the Smoky Mountains. The trails there are super-accessible to long hikes whereas the Smoky's have always had so much tourism that they're difficult to get to by any means other than car. (I think the North Carolina side is probably a little easier to truly feel lost in than the TN side). I always loved the drive up Clinch Mountain during the fall and before the tunnel was built to access KY from the TN side you'd have to go up and touch the tip of Virginia. My KY family took me to see the Pinnacle which was just amazing but with the new highway all that's bypassed.

The great-grandparents I mentioned were of course murdered over coal -- they had the payroll with them and were killed in their homes over it. They set the house on fire to try and hide it and that was long before the Coal Wars or big mines that brought so much devastation. Coal has always been problematic for the area. My great-grandparents were owners of a small claim but that was back when we're talking about small mines that didn't make anyone rich. The ones that were larger and that dot Harlan and Bell now never paid well enough for what the men were put through but it was more than what many have now so people opine those days and pretend it was better than it was. I wish more had been like one of my great-uncles (he was from the TN side) and he spent one day in the mines and never returned. That was enough for him. It was the Great Depression and he didn't give a damn what they were paying it wasn't enough for what they wanted him to do. And if you look at history -- not people's embellished memories -- even when the mines were full of people. rather than machines that knock down mountains, the companies kept people poor with various tactics. It was never a good time for anyone but the owner of the big energy companies.

I can remember visiting my Mammaw's and staring at the rainbows that would form on her fish pond -- not realizing it was pollution from the rain. Tennessee and North Carolina are lucky that Roosevelt decided to claim the Smoky's as a National Park because if he hadn't we'd have met the same fate. Environmental protections are about the only thing that has kept parts of E. TN from being turned into what you see in Harlan and Bell today.

So yeah, I agree. It's land that should rival anywhere, including the Smoky Mtns but it's been ruined by mining and everything that industry had wrought. Thinking about it makes me angry.
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Actually...coal miners here since the 80s-90s made good money. The few deep mines still running pay very well.

Coal is like economic crack to this area, but Obama killed it forever by pretty much forcing a ton of the big coal fired plants around the country to switch to gas.
 
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#134,111
#134,111
UTProf said:
TBH, I always preferred Daniel Boone State Park (or whatever the name is now) over the Smoky Mountains. The trails there are super-accessible to long hikes whereas the Smoky's have always had so much tourism that they're difficult to get to by any means other than car. (I think the North Carolina side is probably a little easier to truly feel lost in than the TN side). I always loved the drive up Clinch Mountain during the fall and before the tunnel was built to access KY from the TN side you'd have to go up and touch the tip of Virginia. My KY family took me to see the Pinnacle which was just amazing but with the new highway all that's bypassed.

The great-grandparents I mentioned were of course murdered over coal -- they had the payroll with them and were killed in their homes over it. They set the house on fire to try and hide it and that was long before the Coal Wars or big mines that brought so much devastation. Coal has always been problematic for the area. The larger mines that dot Harlan and Bell now never paid well enough for what the men were put through but it was more than what many have now so people opine those days and pretend it was better than it was. I wish more had been like one of my great-uncles (he was from the TN side) and he spent one day in the mines and never returned. That was enough for him. It was the Great Depression and he didn't give a damn what they were paying it wasn't enough for what they wanted him to do. And if you look at history -- not people's embellished memories -- even when the mines were full of people. rather than machines that knock down mountains, the companies kept people poor with various tactics. It was never a good time for anyone but the owner of the big energy companies.

I can remember visiting my Mammaw's and staring at the rainbows that would form on her fish pond -- not realizing it was pollution from the rain. Tennessee and North Carolina are lucky that Roosevelt decided to claim the Smoky's as a National Park because if he hadn't we'd have met the same fate. Environmental protections are about the only thing that has kept parts of E. TN from being turned into what you see in Harlan and Bell today.

So yeah, I agree. It's land that should rival anywhere, including the Smoky Mtns but it's been ruined by mining and everything that industry had wrought. Thinking about it makes me angry.
Click to expand...
And I agree, it makes me angry too. Now they are strip mining everywhere and logging the hell out of the mountains too, so everytime it rains the rivers turn to pure mud.
 
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#134,116
#134,116
UTProf said:
TBH, I always preferred Daniel Boone State Park (or whatever the name is now) over the Smoky Mountains. The trails there are super-accessible to long hikes whereas the Smoky's have always had so much tourism that they're difficult to get to by any means other than car. (I think the North Carolina side is probably a little easier to truly feel lost in than the TN side). I always loved the drive up Clinch Mountain during the fall and before the tunnel was built to access KY from the TN side you'd have to go up and touch the tip of Virginia. My KY family took me to see the Pinnacle which was just amazing but with the new highway all that's bypassed.

The great-grandparents I mentioned were of course murdered over coal -- they had the payroll with them and were killed in their homes over it. They set the house on fire to try and hide it and that was long before the Coal Wars or big mines that brought so much devastation. Coal has always been problematic for the area. The larger mines that dot Harlan and Bell now never paid well enough for what the men were put through but it was more than what many have now so people opine those days and pretend it was better than it was. I wish more had been like one of my great-uncles (he was from the TN side) and he spent one day in the mines and never returned. That was enough for him. It was the Great Depression and he didn't give a damn what they were paying it wasn't enough for what they wanted him to do. And if you look at history -- not people's embellished memories -- even when the mines were full of people. rather than machines that knock down mountains, the companies kept people poor with various tactics. It was never a good time for anyone but the owner of the big energy companies.

I can remember visiting my Mammaw's and staring at the rainbows that would form on her fish pond -- not realizing it was pollution from the rain. Tennessee and North Carolina are lucky that Roosevelt decided to claim the Smoky's as a National Park because if he hadn't we'd have met the same fate. Environmental protections are about the only thing that has kept parts of E. TN from being turned into what you see in Harlan and Bell today.

So yeah, I agree. It's land that should rival anywhere, including the Smoky Mtns but it's been ruined by mining and everything that industry had wrought. Thinking about it makes me angry.
Click to expand...
Also...that is Cumberland Gap National Historic Park and is a NPS unit. It is nice, but it ain't the Smokies by a longshot.
 
#134,120
#134,120
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#134,122
#134,122
UTProf said:
One of you mentioned the golf course you played at turning into something big.... True story: The town of Middlesboro, KY as well as the area of Harrogate, TN were meant to be planned communities. When Middlesboro was being built the developer suffered several setbacks that made the project untenable. (I think it was floods and fires and you know that area flooding is still a problem there). Part of the land attached (the part in Harrogate) was going to be developed into a Four Seasons Hotel and that project did indeed get built. Cornelius Vanderbilt and Mark Twain both had stays there -- yep in Harrogate, TN at the Four Seasons Hotel and Sanitarium!** The Middlesboro/Middlesborough project turned into the town of Middlesboro and had a rough history but you can still see the ambition of the project in how the area of downtown looks with broad streets and the design of buildings.

Kinda funny to think but two of the poorest areas near us might've wound up being one of the wealthiest spots in the country had things gone differently. I think the Four Seasons part of the land was eventually sold to LMU and Middlesboro is Middlesborough (depending on your spelling). However, if you've ever set foot in either area you can see why developers chose them. Very beautiful land.

**That would be turned into Grant-Lee Hall. Yep, a dorm.
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That's awesome. Grew up in Harrogate, mom taught at LMU. Never knew that history. Thanks for sharing.
 
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#134,123
#134,123
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Actually...coal miners here since the 80s-90s made good money. The few deep mines still running pay very well.

Coal is like economic crack to this area, but Obama killed it forever by pretty much forcing a ton of the big coal fired plants around the country to switch to gas.
Click to expand...

That was probably the only time it really paid well. Just after the last Harlan Co, War when miners raised so much hell and America had moved past the idea of company towns and employers charging employees for everything. My uncle was a mechanic on the machines they ran and made good there and his son was miner. They both did well but they also both wound up sick with cancer and the son (my cousin) also survived a collapse there. They both worked during that era (my cousin has a daughter that's a year younger than me so he's substantially older - big family).
 
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