Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

#801
#801
If everyone comes back next season healthy, and then everyone stays that way (no injuries or illnesses to key players) — I will say that any finish less than Elite 8 will be greatly disappointing.

Obviously Kellie and her staff are going to know that ALL the pressure is on them to get at least to that level since they managed to reach the S16 this season.

The staff knows darn well, given the players they have coming in and those who are returning healthy and another year more mature, that there will be no acceptable excuse for not making a deep run.

Granted, with the portal the way it is there’s no telling how much better everyone else we might play will also be …

… But, IMO, next season is Kellie’s most important of her entire career. If she can’t take the program up another notch with the players she’ll have — AGAIN, everyone back, everyone available to play all year — then even *I* will be concerned.

HUGE opportunity for this staff ( assuming all of them will be back, too!) to shut some doubters up.

Like I said in another thread I started, the off-season isn’t just for the players to improve, it’s also for the staff to find ways to make improvements to the ways they teach and motivate as well. I have faith everyone will put in the work. The entire country will rightfully expect at least another step in the right direction.
 
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#802
#802
youcancallmeAl said:
Kellie says: You're a tough crowd, I tell ya. I don't get no respect.
Click to expand...


Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until Kellie wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bare minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
 
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#805
#805
madtownvol said:
Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until she wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bear minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
Click to expand...

Beautiful, Mad. I just don't get the concept that because Pat did it, anyone who follows her must do it.
 
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#806
#806
Majors said:
She has exceeded expectations by getting to the Sweet 16, which should always be the standard for the minimum. And finished 3rd in a year they were predicted to finish second. The injuries are part of the game and it looks like she is hopefully addressing the teams lack of speed, but more importantly she needs to start winning the games that matter and not being Tennessee state champions. Compete with UConn, SC, Stanford etc. and not lose the lesser ones. So I disagree that she has done well, she has met the minimum. That's what makes this great, we don't have to agree and still support.
Click to expand...

It's hilarious to me the goalpost-moving from some. Kellie improved from last season so she must be doing a good job? Nevermind the fact that the reason for that "improvement" is she actually underachieved per her seeding last year.

All this to distract from the real point which no one can refute: Kellie's offensive scheme has consistently been trash. And if she doesn't find a way to improve it, Sweet 16 is likely her ceiling...
 
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#807
#807
madtownvol said:
Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until Kellie wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bare minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
Click to expand...
Your best post. 🙂 When Kellie wins her first NC, I will almost feel sorry for her because she will have raised the bar so high that nothing less will satisfy the perfectionists, critics, or unrealistic moronic childish expectations of those who only want to find fault for whatever reason.
It takes a strong person to be Coach of the Lady Vols and thankfully Kellie is strong. So was Pat. She must have been strong if she took the criticism I see on Volnation, only winning the NC 8 times in her very long career.
 
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#808
#808
madtownvol said:
Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until Kellie wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bare minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
Click to expand...

Good post Mad......There are trolls on this site that are disguised as LV fans...Shun them, they just want attention.
 
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#809
#809
madtownvol said:
Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until Kellie wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bare minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
Click to expand...
Lets be realistic and just start with winning the Sweet 16 game to get to the Elite 8 before before we anoint championships. Although an SEC title would be a pretty nice too. But if she can cure cancer that would also be a bonus and would garner an extension of at least 1 year.
 
#810
#810
Darth_Vol said:
It's hilarious to me the goalpost-moving from some. Kellie improved from last season so she must be doing a good job? Nevermind the fact that the reason for that "improvement" is she actually underachieved per her seeding last year.

All this to distract from the real point which no one can refute: Kellie's offensive scheme has consistently been trash. And if she doesn't find a way to improve it, Sweet 16 is likely her ceiling...
Click to expand...
There was a standard set under Summitt that has been cheapened by just being happy with a Sweet 16. It’s not called moving the goalpost, it’s called accountability. If the Tennessee brand is now just get to the Sweet 16 then we have accepted mediocrity. I hope she does succeed but I also hope we don’t hold onto her if she can’t make a major jump next year in the wins that matter and not the padded numbers of being the best in the state of Tennessee to pump that record up.
 
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#811
#811
[QUOTE="Majors, post: 21096103, member: 80703"]Lets be realistic and just start with winning the Sweet 16 game to get to the Elite 8 before before we anoint championships. Although an SEC title would be a pretty nice too. But if she can cure cancer that would also be a bonus and would garner an extension of at least 1 year.[/QUOTE]

Attaboy.
 
#812
#812
Majors said:
There was a standard set under Summitt that has been cheapened by just being happy with a Sweet 16. It’s not called moving the goalpost, it’s called accountability. If the Tennessee brand is now just get to the Sweet 16 then we have accepted mediocrity. I hope she does succeed but I also hope we don’t hold onto her if she can’t make a major jump next year in the wins that matter and not the padded numbers of being the best in the state of Tennessee to pump that record up.
Click to expand...

Only one other person in the history of WCBB has met the standard set by Summitt. What are the odds there will ever be a second one, and further, what are the odds that person would become a Tennessee WCBB head coach?
 
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#813
#813
madtownvol said:
Next up, I don't count winning a national championship as an accomplishment; this is expected for a program like the U of Tennessee. Until Kellie wins 8 NCs and at least matches CPS, she has under achieved.

After winning her 8th consecutive NC, well Geno has 11 (or maybe 12 after this tournament) NCs and that number is the bare minimum standard for coaching competence.

After winning her 12th NC, well, winning NC's has become a routine a thing; the competition has not been as good, blah, blah, the FG% was not that great; until Kellie cures all forms of cancer, then she has under achieved as a coach....

Upon curing cancer with her 13th consecutive NC, actually, micro-biologists had figured out a lot about the cancer genome so that "cure" is really not that impressive. Until Kellie......
Click to expand...
Getting your points Madtown. Let’s give her a team with Holdsclaw, the Meeks and Kellie Jolly at the point and see how she holds up. She’s building and clearly has a plan and she can’t please everyone and shouldn’t try.
 
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#814
#814
Darth_Vol said:
It's hilarious to me the goalpost-moving from some. Kellie improved from last season so she must be doing a good job? Nevermind the fact that the reason for that "improvement" is she actually underachieved per her seeding last year.

All this to distract from the real point which no one can refute: Kellie's offensive scheme has consistently been trash. And if she doesn't find a way to improve it, Sweet 16 is likely her ceiling...
Click to expand...

First you said her loss to Michigan and that failure to get to the SS was proof she wasn't a P-5 caliber coach. Then you said her recruiting was trash. So then she gets to the SS and starts pulling in major talent (Jackson), and you express no congratulations, no positive reinforcement, no appreciation. Instead, you say her offense is trash. Speaking of trash..........
 
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#815
#815
youcancallmeAl said:
Only one other person in the history of WCBB has met the standard set by Summitt. What are the odds there will ever be a second one, and further, what are the odds that person would become a Tennessee WCBB head coach?
Click to expand...
I don’t know what the odds are, but Kellie winning National Championships will not surprise me one bit.
 
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#816
#816
I've found the best thing you can do is ignore certain posters. They can rant and rave about this and that, but they are a small group that will just be ignored by the Administration cause the majority of true fans know the situation we were in when Holly got fired and how far we have come since her last season. I will add that winning a National Championship going forward is going to be quite difficult. There are going to be probably five or more teams capable of doing it every season. A lot of parity is coming to WCCB with the portal. No longer going to be that getting a top five recruiting class out of high school is enough to win it cause someone could get a top five experienced group out of the portal every season. You can look at rosters and tell if you have one of those teams and I think were getting close. Another strong post player probably puts us in that position next season. No one ever wants to talk about a rebuild when the school has a proud past history, but that is exactly where we were three seasons ago and it has worked out well thus far. Looks like we have the players to advance even further next season.
 
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#819
#819
Majors said:
There was a standard set under Summitt that has been cheapened by just being happy with a Sweet 16. It’s not called moving the goalpost, it’s called accountability. If the Tennessee brand is now just get to the Sweet 16 then we have accepted mediocrity. I hope she does succeed but I also hope we don’t hold onto her if she can’t make a major jump next year in the wins that matter and not the padded numbers of being the best in the state of Tennessee to pump that record up.
Click to expand...

Sadly, the standard under CPS in her last four years were elimination in the first round (the so-called baby vol season). That team immediately followed the 8th NC with Candace and Vicki Baugh was lost to an ACL); then The CPS LVs went to the Sweet 16 and two elite 8s before CPS had to step aside. Under Holly, she kept the elite 8 standard going with 3 appearances in her first 4 years (and one Sweet 16) plus 3 SEC regular season titles. Things went down pretty fast in the next 3 years and the LVS become a mid-level SEC team that was getting bounced in the first round. By any reasonable measure, a 25 win (Injury plagued) season culminating in a sweet 16 game is a clear step in the right direction,. And hence, no surprise that AD White just extended her contract. That is Kellie's accountability not fans on a message board.
)
 
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#820
#820
madtownvol said:
Sadly, the standard under CPS in her last four years were elimination in the first round (the so-called baby vol season). That team immediately followed the 8th NC with Candace and Vicki Baugh was lost to an ACL); then The CPS LVs went to the Sweet 16 and two elite 8s before CPS had to step aside. Under Holly, she kept the elite 8 standard going with 3 appearances in her first 4 years (and one Sweet 16) plus 3 SEC regular season titles. Things went down pretty fast in the next 3 years and the LVS become a mid-level SEC team that was getting bounced in the first round. By any reasonable measure, a 25 win (Injury plagued) season culminating in a sweet 16 game is a clear step in the right direction,. And hence, no surprise that AD White just extended her contract. That is Kellie's accountability not fans on a message board.
)
Click to expand...
Don't disagree with any of that as Elite 8 or higher is where blue bloods should be. Only part I take a different view is the extension. Great to show longevity on paper, press and to recruits but always has an out.
 
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#821
#821
youcancallmeAl said:
Only one other person in the history of WCBB has met the standard set by Summitt. What are the odds there will ever be a second one, and further, what are the odds that person would become a Tennessee WCBB head coach?
Click to expand...
That person exceeded the path/bar that was set by Summitt. The standard is competing for SEC championships first, get to Sunday to cut down the net and the rest takes care of itself. New era, but Dawn is making a pretty strong case with what she has accomplished in 14 years.
 
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#824
#824
Darth_Vol said:
Ok, and? Who said she was going anywhere?
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If she wasn't doing the job like you say so many times then she should've been fired instead of extended. Why would we want to extend and give a raise to someone that wasn't doing the job. You have at least through your posting seemed to be one of the posters that questioned her ability and in the group that think it would be best to get someone else. So which is it doing the job or not doing it seems the AD is all aboard. Of course no particular person has to be, but continuing the same old gripe for four years to come would seem to be tiring to me maybe to you it is fun.
 
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#825
#825
Darth_Vol said:
So they keep saying. Then I look at the last four teams remaining, a couple of whom benefitted from the portal themselves...
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It is changing slowly and the next few years will see it make a huge difference. I think each year you will see more teams become capable of winning the tourney. This portal thing only started last year in five years it will have evened the playing field even more and expect there will be up to ten teams with the talent in any given season to win the National title.
 
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