Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

[Ulysees E. McGill]

The people still spouting the “consequence culture” BS have completely lost the plot.

They will care when their lives are ruined for something they post.

 

[VolGee4]

No they don't...how many discrimination laws are on the books?

Yes they do. I said it above.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

No. They can terminate him for any reason beyond race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. That is, discriminating against him.

You guys let emotions affect you too much. Does it suck? Yes. But it’s not illegal. Business owners can protect their business and investments in a wide-ranging manner, and it should be that way. Otherwise, business owners wouldn’t have freedoms to make their own decisions.

Getting fired for saying he thinks women's basketball sucks isn't discrimination?

 

[AMBAVol07]

Just texted with her Aunt, she said they’ve sent Soda home with oxygen. Good news for the day!!!

Thank you! Prayers answered, now prayers her father is okay.

 

[DawgInterloper]

No. They can terminate him for any reason beyond race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. That is, discriminating against him.

You guys let emotions affect you too much. Does it suck? Yes. But it’s not illegal. Business owners can protect their business and investments in a wide-ranging manner, and it should be that way. Otherwise, business owners wouldn’t have freedoms to make their own decisions.

What I said is that a terminated employee can ask them to prove in court that they're protecting their business and investments. If they get up in court and say we only apply this standard to men who criticize women's sports, or particularly women's basketball, they may lose. It's not an inherently offensive or biased statement to say I hate women's basketball. Maybe he still enjoys women's tennis. What if a woman says I hate women's basketball? Is that fireable.

 

[Jimmy Football]

No. They can terminate him for any reason beyond race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. That is, discriminating against him.

You guys let emotions affect you too much. Does it suck? Yes. But it’s not illegal. Business owners can protect their business and investments in a wide-ranging manner, and it should be that way. Otherwise, business owners wouldn’t have freedoms to make their own decisions.

I think most of us don’t think it should be illegal, we just think businesses should be more willing to honor free speech as a civic value. I know it’s more difficult today than it was before the era of social media, but I would still wish they would take more pains to stand by their employees.

They task this guy with speaking extemporaneously for hours and hours. Eventually you’re going to say something you probably wish you hadn’t. But this was pretty tame, and he apologized for it immediately.

Under the circumstances, I think it’s worthy of criticism that they bailed on him, just to potentially save a few bucks.

 

[VolFanNC09]

If I read it right earlier...

He was setting that part about the LPGA up, only to say in the next segment that he now likes the LPGA since he's been up close and personal to it more recently. Weird that he made it all about women's sports...yeah...but it did seem he ultimately defended the LPGA tour. Not sure why that was even necessary or a talking point to begin with, weird he'd be ranting about women's sports...but anyway in all fairness to him...

Yeah, seems like a big overreaction to fire him. The comments aren’t terrible, not something he should have said, but certainly not something where he should be fired.

 

[UTProf]

Quick story about the holocaust museum in DC:

My brother is an educator who has some influence in the Jewish world because of project he did several years ago. When the Holocaust museum opened in Washington DC, he was invited to tour with a few other prominent people connected to Holocaust education. The premise behind the museum is you're given a card with the name and background of a Jewish person in the holocaust. You're then 'lead' through the museum as events unfolded before and during the war. At the end of the tour, you find out whether the person on your card lived or died. I'm not sure if that's how the museum is structured now but that's how it was when it opened.

On my brother's tour during the 'opening', he was given a card and lead through the museum individually by an older lady. She told him about the construction of the museum, the events surrounding the war, and other tidbits about the Jewish existence during this time. At the end, he observed other people finishing the tour being told about the person on their card. He gently asked the older lady if the person on his card lived or died. She said:

"I lived"

I was about to say it was that way when I went through but I went through when it first opened. My HS was ahead of the curve and we had an entire year's worth of holocaust studies my junior year. (One of the reasons the publicity from Maus has been heartbreaking is it portrays TN as backwards and erases the work teacher's like mine were doing years before it became more common nationwide). I still remember the little girl I was assigned, though all these years later I don't remember whether or not we lived or died. I kept the card and still had it up until the house fire. I do remember that we actually looked alike which was just a random occurrence but for a teenager that's the kind of thing that really makes you pay attention.

But you can always relate to someone you're assigned to in situations like that especially as you read a little bit about them and then carry their card through the exhibits. At times that little scrap of paper feels like the only shield or link to reality you have as some of them are just overwhelming you. I think more exhibits that take on large topics like genocide or slavery should implement something similar. One of the things the Holocaust Museum really excels at is telling you the story through the eyes of those that lived (or died) through it.

 

[VolGee4]

Getting fired for saying he thinks women's basketball sucks isn't discrimination?

No, it’s not. If I owned a salon and spa that caters to women and I had an employee that got on social media and said they hated women, then I would absolutely have the right to terminate that person.

Let’s learn something today: freedom of speech is from government intrusion, not in the private sector. If the government was allowed to tell a business owner that he couldn’t fire people, then we would have many more problems that even you would agree aren’t right.

Let’s take it even further, Chik Fil A hires franchise owners, who have to follow Christian values. I’m Christian, just like you. But do you think there is a problem with that? They are a private entity who make decisions based on their values to protect their interest. Same principle!

 

[Devo182]

Meh I’ve had an orbital fracture, it healed on its own no problems.

Yeah yeah but if a millionaire causes it, then clearly it's a $5mm problem

I remember growing up and being taught people shouldn't sue one another, due to the bible.

Which is why it's amazing to me, in the very same country, just how individually litigious people are and have been for so long. Greed and materialistic capitalism overtook any sense of basic ethics so long ago. The "hustle" culture...it's awful.

 

[VolGee4]

I think most of us don’t think it should be illegal, we just think businesses should be more willing to honor free speech as a civic value. I know it’s more difficult today than it was before the era of social media, but I would still wish they would take more pains to stand by their employees.

They task this guy with speaking extemporaneously for hours and hours. Eventually you’re going to say something you probably wish you hadn’t. But this was pretty tame, and he apologized for it immediately.

Under the circumstances, I think it’s worthy of criticism that they bailed on him, just to potentially save a few bucks.

As I stated previously, it’s a cost-benefit analysis. I am guessing Mark Lye is expendable, and sponsors could be at stake. Joe Rogan is not expendable to Spotify. Just the nature of the analysis.

 

[Jackcrevol]

I feel sorta bad for that young woman.

she made her choice, if true.

 

[VolGee4]

What I said is that a terminated employee can ask them to prove in court that they're protecting their business and investments. If they get up in court and say we only apply this standard to men who criticize women's sports, or particularly women's basketball, they may lose. It's not an inherently offensive or biased statement to say I hate women's basketball. Maybe he still enjoys women's tennis. What if a woman says I hate women's basketball? Is that fireable.

He can be terminated for almost anything than what I stated. In TN, you are at-will unless there is a contract. You can terminate for poor performance, for business being down, and for statements the business doesn’t agree with. We would have serious issues if business owners had to keep people they don’t want.

 

[Jimmy Football]

As I stated previously, it’s a cost-benefit analysis. I am guessing Mark Lye is expendable, and sponsors could be at stake. Joe Rogan is not expendable to Spotify. Just the nature of the analysis.

Yeah, and I think it’s blameworthy to fire someone over a balance sheet analysis, if their conduct didn’t otherwise merit termination.

For example, if someone fired Charles Davis because he made an off-handed comment that he loved Skittles on a program where Mars competitor Hershey’s was a sponsor (and they pulled their sponsorship as a result), I would be furious.

 

[volKano]

Who is going to take AK’s spot on the Jumbotron??
If they stick with players currently in the NFL, DB has to be the favorite you’d think? We don’t have a NFL “star” right now outside ok AK.. It would be nice if Dobbs would win the starting job in Pittsburg, but that’s a long shot

Why don’t we see what happens first? Kobe Bryant had worse accusations against him and now he is remembered as a saint.

 

[volinexile17]

Getting fired for saying he thinks women's basketball sucks isn't discrimination?

What is it discrimination against?

 

[VolGee4]

Yeah, and I think it’s blameworthy to fire someone over a balance sheet analysis, if their conduct didn’t otherwise merit termination.

For example, if someone fired Charles Davis because he made an off-handed comment that he loved Skittles on a program where Mars competitor Hershey’s was a sponsor (and they pulled their sponsorship as a result), I would be furious.

The market corrects it, if necessary. Go boycott Sirius.

I don’t think anyone would fire someone for saying anything about a candy as opposed to a comment about women. A little extreme.

 

[OrangenSC]

Well, there are some missing parts to your analysis. When I went to college and more than likely when you went, the objective for most was to graduate with a degree that prepared them for an in-demand job. Bluntly there are too many people going to college now. Some attain degrees that are all but worthless. Others attain degrees that would have worth except there are far too many graduates for those 2.7 gpa students to compete. Starting with the boomers... there was a narrative pushed by teachers, politicians, media, and parents that you had to go to college if you were an intelligent student. That was never true and has now produced artificial demand for college graduates... and contributed to ridiculous inflation in college costs.

True statements. I get so irritated that guidance counsellors and others push kids to go to 4-year universities. For most, other options are much better.... trade school, military, straight to the work force, etc.

For most of my 23 years teaching high school I've told my students that a 4-year college isn't for everyone, especially right out of hs. Consider other options based on your career desires. And if they don't yet know what career they want, and many don't really, university is the last place they should be.

I encourage them to, if they're going to college, to seriously consider a community college first, then the 4-year. It'll save a ton of money and ease the transition that many aren't prepared for. Many just aren't ready for it yet. That's why the failure rate, the drop-out rate, the change of major rate, and the party rate are so high. Oh, and it's also why the cost is so high.

Edit: Between rising costs and the growing use of virtual/online education, I believe the trend is changing and people are starting to see other other options.

 

[Jimmy Football]

The market corrects it, if necessary. Go boycott Sirius.

I don’t think anyone would fire someone for saying anything about a candy as opposed to a comment about women. A little extreme.

Hard to boycott a product you don’t use, but I digress. The overall point is Sirius should have stood by their employee. It was wrong (not legally, but ethically) to fire him over this.

 

[jave36]

No, it’s not. If I owned a salon and spa that caters to women and I had an employee that got on social media and said they hated women, then I would absolutely have the right to terminate that person.

Let’s learn something today: freedom of speech is from government intrusion, not in the private sector. If the government was allowed to tell a business owner that he couldn’t fire people, then we would have many more problems that even you would agree aren’t right.

Let’s take it even further, Chik Fil A hires franchise owners, who have to follow Christian values. I’m Christian, just like you. But do you think there is a problem with that? They are a private entity who make decisions based on their values to protect their interest. Same principle!

Well said

 

[jave36]

True statements. I get so irritated that guidance counsellors and others push kids to go to 4-year universities. For most, other options are much better.... trade school, military, straight to the work force, etc.

For most of my 23 years teaching high school I've told my students that a 4-year college isn't for everyone, especially right out of hs. Consider other options based on your career desires. And if they don't yet know what career they want, and many don't really, university is the last place they should be.

I encourage them to, if they're going to college, to seriously consider a community college first, then the 4-year. It'll save a ton of money and ease the transition that many aren't prepared for. Many just aren't ready for it yet. That's why the failure rate, the drop-out rate, the change of major rate, and the party rate are so high. Oh, and it's also why the cost is so high.

All true except the cost. Many people going to and failing out of college doesn't increase the cost. If anything it decreases it because universities can spread fixed costs among more tuition payers if more people go to college, regardless of whether or not they should go to college.

 

[jave36]

I think most of us don’t think it should be illegal, we just think businesses should be more willing to honor free speech as a civic value. I know it’s more difficult today than it was before the era of social media, but I would still wish they would take more pains to stand by their employees.

They task this guy with speaking extemporaneously for hours and hours. Eventually you’re going to say something you probably wish you hadn’t. But this was pretty tame, and he apologized for it immediately.

Under the circumstances, I think it’s worthy of criticism that they bailed on him, just to potentially save a few bucks.

The problem is more about advertisers. They're the ones who still believe that Twitter posts represent the majority of people, so they'll back out of sponsorships. The business cares only about money, so they'll make whatever personnel decision they believe makes them the most money.

 

[DawgInterloper]

He can be terminated for almost anything than what I stated. In TN, you are at-will unless there is a contract. You can terminate for poor performance, for business being down, and for statements the business doesn’t agree with. We would have serious issues if business owners had to keep people they don’t want.

But, lets go back to what you stated. You said gender, but not male gender. Is this man being terminated not because of his opinion about a particular sport but because of his gender, and is that okay? If his lawyers can make a good case for that, using other on air examples that were handled differently, it'll be interesting to see how Sirius wants to proceed. There's more than one way to damage a business.

 

[UTProf]

Quick reminder to never talk with the police. It cannot help you. Wait until you have a lawyer.

Would love to see the transcript. I have a feeling poor Alvin got led all around that interview room. I'm not going to call him a dummy bc I know he's smarter than that but talking to police without a lawyer is about the dumbest thing anyone can do. It's even worse the less you've done.

 

[Jimmy Football]

The problem is more about advertisers. They're the ones who still believe that Twitter posts represent the majority of people, so they'll back out of sponsorships. The business cares only about money, so they'll make whatever personnel decision they believe makes them the most money.

Oh, I understand that. I just think what they did was unethical, and can’t be justified on the grounds that it saved them money to can him.

Also, for the people that are defending it on those grounds, I do think there is a line where almost everyone would say, “Ok, this person didn’t deserve this, and we can’t condone this action, even if it means their stock price will drop of few cents.”

The Lye firing is over that line for me. It will be interesting to see where others draw that line.